Harry Potter? [Archive] - Christian Chat Forum

Tamara224

03-02-2006, 12:34 PM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)

I have very recently finished reading the Harry Potter series. For a long time I resisted reading the books or watching the movies. My opinion was shaped a lot by what I heard about the books from other conservative Christians. The fact that they are about witchcraft and the fact that children learn magic at school in the books made me believe that they were, if not evil, at least not 'good.' However, a friend finally persuaded me to read the books. I felt that I could not honestly critique them unless I had read them. Also, I came to the point where I felt it was not fair of me to defend J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis and not at least give Rowling a chance.

After having read the books I am still undecided as to whether they are appropriate for children. I think to a large extent it would depend on the age and maturity level of the child. I think it would also depend on how much time the child's parents are willing to spend in discussing the books with their kids. I say this because I think there are some elements of the books that do not promote a Christian worldview. However, I do not think the 'magical' elements of the books are any different or worse than the 'magical' elements of The Chronicles of Narnia or the Lord of the Rings. In all three instances, the 'magic' is contextual and obviously fantasy.

I do not believe there is any danger that children will become curious in the occult solely due to these books. The 'Witches' and 'Wizards' in Harry Potter's world are different from our real world because either a person is magical or a person is not magical (a 'Muggle'). There is no possibility that a Muggle can learn to be a Wizard - either you have it or you don't. A wand in the hand of a Muggle does nothing; a spell uttered by a Muggle is meaningless and powerless. Therefore, children reading these books may play-act with fake wands, but it would be no different than pretending to be Lucy Pevensie with her 'magical' healing cordial. And the spells in the books are merely Latin words or phrases - they are not 'real' witchcraft.

My caution with allowing children to read the books is not due to the 'magical' elements. My caution is that the underlying worldview leans toward Paganism and/or secular humanism rather than toward Christianity. Unlike C.S. Lewis and Tolkein, Rowling's books never hint or suggest at an 'Ultimate Good'. The characters are left to determine good within themselves. There are a couple of instances where Harry was told that he should find strength, courage, etc from within himself. Also, especially in the last two books, the tone gets rather 'dark' at times. Rowling's descriptions can get rather intense and frightening. The books are much darker than the Chronicles of Narnia, I would say, but not more so than the Lord of the Rings.

I think if a more mature 12 year old, for example, were to read these books it could be fine. As with any influence children are exposed to, I think a lot of good can come from it as long as the parents discuss it with the child. A child could learn discernment if the parent took him through the book and discussed which aspects are good, bad, neutral, etc. I do not think Harry Potter presents anything unique to children as far as this goes. There are a lot of books out there that have no magic in them which I think could be much more harmful to children. I think this should be something parents must determine for themselves. I know many parents like to avoid anything that might be a bad influence. There are good reasons not to allow children to read these books. But if parents allow children to read other secular books, I personally see no reason to exclude Harry Potter. If a child can read The Hobbit, he or she can probably handle Harry Potter.

In conclusion, I would just like to say that the Harry Potter books are an excellent read. The writing is very good and it is difficult to put the books down, once started. Rowling writes believable characters who grow and change throughout the series. Once read, a person feels like they really know Harry and his friends. Also, as ArtistAna said, it is easy to relate to the characters and situations.

db14

03-02-2006, 01:06 PM

If you say that Harry Potter promotes witchcraft, you obviously have not read the books. I think they hold many important christian messages in them.

Read The Gospel according to Harry Potter, by Connie Neal, where she explains this in more detail

Rufus

03-02-2006, 03:20 PM

Also, I came to the point where I felt it was not fair of me to defend J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis and not at least give Rowling a chance.

However, I do not think the 'magical' elements of the books are any different or worse than the 'magical' elements of The Chronicles of Narnia or the Lord of the Rings. In all three instances, the 'magic' is contextual and obviously fantasy.

It is duplicitous for Christians to defend Tolkien and CS Lewis but rebuke Rowling. All are works dealing with subject matter that God warned us about and commanded us against. They should all be rebuked.

I do not believe there is any danger that children will become curious in the occult solely due to these books.

The occult and witchcraft is on the rise in America. Our culture is permeated with television shows like 'Charmed' and 'Buffy' to go along with the Rowlings series. We are all, especially children, products of our environment garbage in, garbage out. Children are exposed to sex, they become sexualized. They are exposed to violence, they become violent and when they become exposed to witchcraft, these premises and beliefs become a part of their character.

Therefore, children reading these books may play-act with fake wands, but it would be no different than pretending to be Lucy Pevensie with her 'magical' healing cordial.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but is there scripture that states that witchcraft is evil but it is okay to pretend to be involved in it or allow your children to pretend? In my interpretation of scripture God said this stuff is wicked and evil and that which even has the appearance of evil we should steer clear of. Why would we try to toe this line?

When I was young we had candy cigarettes...I loved 'em. The politically correct crowd came along and said we can't have kids smoking candy cigarettes cuz later they will wind up smoking real cigarettes. I don't typically agree with the PC crowd but I agree with this stance because it seems obvious. Kids smoke with candy cigarettes then they want the real deal later. Kids play with magic then they are apt to want to be real magicians later.

One final thought for this post, the 6 hardback books (one final book is on the way) of the Harry Potter series have a total of 3,365 pages. I have a King James Bible that has a total of 776 pages. Now there are more words per page in the Bible so this isn't precise but in the time it took a child to read 6 of these occult books they could have read the Bible 2.5 to 3.5 times. Just a hypothetical here but would there be differences in a child who has read the Bible 2-3 times versus a child who has read the entire Harry Potter series?

Rylee

03-08-2006, 02:36 AM

The witchcraft in the movies AND the books is much more blatant than any hidden Christian messages. How many sentences must be flipped and reconstructed and interpreted in miscellaneous ways to somehow construe a Christian message? In addition, many more people watch the movies than actually sit down and read the books, so the message, if promoting anything, is still largely promoting witchcraft over Christianity.

Redeemed777

06-11-2006, 09:06 PM

I WILL SAY THIS UPFRONT
GOD TOLD US TO STAY AWAY FROM WITCHCRAFT
thant means chronnicals of narnia and harry potter and lord of the rings and marry poppins and the show "bewitched"

They killed witchs in the old testement!!!
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live
DO YOU THINK GOD LIKES WITCHCRAFT
he ordered the isrealites to kill users of witchcraft
but that was a different time and law
HOW ABOUT
1Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and and stubbornness is as iniquity of idolatry.Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also thee from being king.

If you say witchcraft is ok... its againt the word of GOD

And all of this witchcraft is conditioning this generation to think.. magic is just fine and it all started with Micky Mouse and the magic hat to now with Harry potter..SATAN is targeting everyone but he is targeting KIDS of this age!!!!
By the time the beast(or antichrist) comes he going to al these people thinking sex,witchcraft,homosexuality,and suicide (and much more) is ok!!!!
He is even going to have some of the ELECT thinking that witchcraft is ok
which already he does...

Rheged

06-11-2006, 10:04 PM

Not rightly sure myself. Depends which bit of the books you look at. If you take the first thing you read/see, then I would say that the books glorify sorcery, but then at the same time, disdain it ('good' guys and 'bad' guys on both sides). On the other hand, if you look at the characters themselves, I would say that yes, they are ok. A good example here, is that the character Dumbeldore, Harry's mentor, is of the opinion that love and goodness will ultimately win over hate and nastiness. Evidence of the 'good' side of the books is presented right at the start of the sequence, where Harry's mother and father both die to protect him, his mother's sacrifice resulting in Harry being able to withstand Voldemort and giving him a form of protection against the aforementioned bad guy. Unfortunately for the good side of the book, the majority of younger children (christian or otherwise) are not going to see the underlying message (re. dumbeldore) and will instead see spellcasting as 'fun'.

Final answer: Okay for older children.

Redeemed777

06-11-2006, 10:18 PM

Daphne

06-11-2006, 10:44 PM

Man its so evil GOD TOLD US STAY AWAY FROM WITCHCRAFT EVEN IF THERE ARE THEMES IT IS EXPOSEING CHILDREN TO WITCHCRAFT

JESUS IS NOT DUMBELDORE JESUS IS NOT ASLAN JESUS IS NOT GANDALF
JESUS IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD NO ONE ELSE!!!!

Have you ever even read the series or even one of the books?

"Harry Potter" is a fictional book.

I mean in C.S. Lewis's series: "The Chronicles of Narnia" there is witch. There's magic. But these books get praise from Christians who are against Harry Potter.

Same with Tolkien, who never intended for the "Lord of the Rings" to be a Christian allegory.

Redeemed777

06-11-2006, 11:15 PM

IF you want to have nice messeges why do you have to use witchcraft
witchcraft is against God and we should flee from evil
SURE christains praise chronicals of narina (yes it was a great story)
but it is against God
These storys are conditioning the society to trust and think that witchcraft is ok
but witchcraft not ok and we shouldnt support it

CheeseKing

06-11-2006, 11:24 PM

Good sir, I understand your reasoning behind harry potter, but I would argue that Lord of the Rings and the Chronnicles of Narnia are based off of biblical principles. These two do not say witchcraft is ok. I would say that the witchcraft of this day and age is drugs and wrong music. They are used to pervert the mind and hurt the body, which is what satan wants and promotes us to do, as satan wants all those made in God's image to die and turn away from the Lord. I would agree that cartoons are being used to take children at a young age and we must be careful with what we allow our children to watch. I don't watch tv anymore, and have found things to go along a lot more smoothly in my life. We must beware the ways of the world. We will be offered beautiful gifts, but within the gifts are hell and destruction. We must be watchful and aware. Meditate on the word, day and night. Stay on the right path and never linger down the way of darkness. God Bless.

Daphne

06-12-2006, 12:03 AM

"While it is true that the Chronicles of Narnia series includes evil witches and mystical spells, the book is filled with Biblical allegory and allusions.

Evil is clearly delineated as pure evil and children can easily identify the evil in the books as unattractive, and can at the same time find Aslan and his righteous qualities very attractive.

The Chronicles of Narnia" can be a great way for parents and their children to read entertaining literature together and discuss Biblical elements all at the same time." (http://www.gotquestions.org/Chronicles-of-Narnia.html)

Oh and you didn't answer my question.
Have you ever read a Harry Potter?
Because if you have, you can clearly see it is far from evil.
Just a great fictional book.

Redeemed777

06-12-2006, 12:26 PM

Thats not the point...aslan is not God (THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH IS A MAN) not a lion
Like i said ...yes it dose have christain themes and i used to love reading those books but i talked with someone that didnt like it because IT CONTAINED WITCHCRAFT includeing ASLAN ....ASLAN speaks of DEEP MAGIC and "DEEPER MAGIC BEFORE TIME" why dosnt it just say GOD
or why dosnt it say "A GREATER FORCE BEFORE TIME"(that is when Aslan was explaining his ressurection) These book arnt just read by christains they are read by the lost aswell and for someone that might not now much about God wouldnt understand the books from a christain perspective only in the perpective of Magic.

The fact is if you want a great story(which narnia is a GREAT story and i used to love it) Dont use witchcraft IT IS AGINST GOD/JESUS/HOLY GHOST

Rufus

06-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Witchcraft = Sin:
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. - 1 Samuel 15:23

The heroes of Harry Potter & Chronicles of Narnia & Lord of the Rings = Witchcraft/Sin

Harry Potter = Chronicles of Narnia = Lord of the Rings = Withcraft/Sin

There is no mention in the Bible alluding to one type of magic (white magic) being better than another type (black magic). Thus, whether one is left hand path or right hand path they are both answering to the same master and that master is not God.

Neither Rowling, Lewis or Tolkien are Christian authors. The only one that comes close is Lewis and he was a Catholic Mystic.

Redeemed's post on Aslan is spot on. If Aslan is an allusion to Jesus Christ then wouldn't Aslan be praising God the Father rather than speaking of the magic forbidden by the Father?

These movies have antichrist actors in them that are pushing their antichrist message. The best example of this is Sir Ian McKellan who is a confessed sodomite. Sir McKellan likes to go to hotels and take the Bibles left in the hotel rooms and tear out passages he doesn't like, such as the parts that refer to homosexuality being an abomination. Thus, when we Christians drop money on these movies (I'm just as guilty as anyone else...I've seen them all and I once had the deluxe sets of the Tolkien series) we are supporting the antichrist salaries who push their antichrist agendas.

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." - 1 Thessalonians 5:22

"I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes:" - Psalm 101:3a

What is Holly Wood?
"HOLLY
A beautiful white wood with an almost invisible grain; looks very much like ivory. Holly is associated with the death and rebirth symbolism of winter in both Pagan and Christian lore and is important to the Winter Solstice. In Arthurian legend, Gawain (representing the Oak King of summer) fought the Green Knight, who was armed with a holly club to represent winter. It is one of the three timbers used in the construction of chariot wheel shafts. It was used in spear shafts also. The qualities of a spear shaft are balance and directness, as the spear must be hefted to be thrown the holly indicates directed balance and vigour to fight if the cause is just. Holly may be used in spells having to do with sleep or rest, and to ease the passage of death. A bag of leaves and berries carried by a man is said to increase his ability to attract women."

(Source: Sacred Celtic Trees and Woods )

Daphne

06-12-2006, 02:14 PM

Rufus

06-12-2006, 03:34 PM

Witchcraft that literally fills these novels is not harmful, because it is just a story. Potter books are not Reality, they are Fantasy. As Fantasy, they pose no threat to anyone who reads them, even to the most enthusiastic. Because the stories are just Fantasy, they will not cause anyone to actually go into Witchcraft.

You say witchcraft is not harmful. The Lord says it's a sin. For what cause would we heed your opinion rather than what saith the Lord? Can you make a Biblical argument for how viewing sin is okay? God calls fornication and lust sin, should we watch pornography? God calls sodomy sin. Should we watch movies with two cowboys getting to know each other ala Brokeback Mountain? How about drunkenness, drug abuse, idolatry, movies which glorify killing...all explicitly described by God as being sin. Where do we draw the line or is there one?

J.K. Rowling calls the accusations "absurd," saying Harry Potter's world is entirely imaginary.

Who said the Harry Potter stories were real? I do not suspect, nor do I know anyone who does, that thinks there is a real Harry Potter. However, I can guarantee you there is real witchcraft and Rowling's books educate the masses on the ins and outs of the craft.

"I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch,'" the author has said.

Well, if the author of the witchcraft books says it's okay then it must be?

Imagination like sin starts in the heart and mind. Jesus Christ said:

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

Thus, while not having committed adultery physically, doing so in the heart is sin. Just because people or kids don't go out and become witches (witchcraft is on the increase and they are doing this) doesn't mean they aren't exposing themselves and their hearts to something they shouldn't be involved in. If Ms. Rowlings thinks a child sees or reads the Potter books and does not desire to be the hero of those books then I would suspect that Ms. Rowlings is detached from reality. Children who watch Star Wars want to be Luke Skywalker or Hans Solo, they want to be Spiderman, they want to be Superman, they want to be whatever is placed before their senses. Why not fill their hearts and minds with Biblical stories and heroes rather than heroes engaged in witchcraft?

Though more than 50 million copies are in print worldwide, there has been no evidence of widespread conversions to paganism or witchcraft.

HARRY POTTER AND THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS (http://www.christiananswers.com/spotlight/movies/2002/harrypotterchamber.html)
"In 2001, PBS aired a documentary on the JK Rowlings phenomenon. This special (which I would encourage parents to watch) was quite unbiased and extremely revealing. The docudrama pointed out many of the pagan and real occult parallels in the books. They also interviewed witches to validate the fact that the information contained in the stories is more than just fantasy. Keep in mind, PBS is not part of the religious right."

Is what Rowlings is doing any different than what Patricia Morrison did?

"Patricia Morrison doesn't train people formally, but many have been introduced to Witchcraft and Paganism through her memoir Strange Days and her science-fantasy series The Keltiad. "I consider that I've made the Craft accessible to people who would never read a book about Witchcraft per se, but who would read a fantasy novel or a memoir of life with a rock star. Its my way of sneaking round to the back door then holding it open for them to come inside." (Patricia Morrison, quoted in Wiccan Wisdom Keepers, p. 112).

Chuck Colson stated that the magic saturating the Potter books was all right and not harmful, because it was just mechanical magic [like card tricks and illusions], and that no contact was made with the supernatural world.

Chuck Colson is an apostate wolf giving sheep wicked counsel.

And Rufus and Redeemed,
Have you ever read a Harry Potter book?

I have not...nor have I read Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, Secret Doctrines or the Satanic Bible. There is power in words and allowing witches to get a foothold in your mind is not to your spiritual advantage.

Let me ask you if I may, during the time you read your last Harry Potter book did you read more or less pages of your Bible than the Potter book?

And I have heard that J. K. Rowling is actually a Christian, i will have to find my source though.
Of course you have, everyone is a Christian nowadays. Jessica Simpson, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Mel Gibson, people even think W is a Christian. If Rowling was a Biblical Christian she wouldn't be promoting witchcraft.

Here's how you can test the spirit of Ms. Rowlings...

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galations 5:19-21

Rylee

06-12-2006, 04:08 PM

Rylee

06-12-2006, 04:29 PM

J.K. Rowling calls the accusations "absurd," saying Harry Potter's world is entirely imaginary.
"I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch,'" the author has said.

I'm so glad that you said that!

Ted Olsen ended his defense of Harry with a quote by J. K Rowling:

"I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch."

The fact is -- whether Ms Rowling heard it from a fan or not -- many children are pursuing the real-life versions of witchcraft because they have learned to love Harry's world. Ten-year-old Gioia Bishop said it well, "I was eager to get to Hogwarts first because I like what they learned there and I want to be a witch."

Source: http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry&Witchcraft.htm

I highly recommend EVERYBODY read the above article... it truly says it all.

For further reading and a couple of links:

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/harrypotter.html
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm
http://www.espministries.com/topic_harry.htm

Daphne

06-12-2006, 04:34 PM

You say witchcraft is not harmful.

You took my words and twisted them. I said, Witchcraft that literally fills these novels is not harmful, because it is just a story. A FICTIONAL STORY.

However, I can guarantee you there is real witchcraft and Rowling's books educate the masses on the ins and outs of the craft.

Well if it somehow does it isn't very good. Seeing as 90% of the stuff she made up. And the "spells" are latin. And clearly if you have EVER READ an Harry Potter book you would CLEARLY see their is no education of the sort!

Well, if the author of the witchcraft books says it's okay then it must be?

She has never said practising witchcraft is okay.

"In 2001, PBS aired a documentary on the JK Rowlings phenomenon. This special (which I would encourage parents to watch) was quite unbiased and extremely revealing. The docudrama pointed out many of the pagan and real occult parallels in the books. They also interviewed witches to validate the fact that the information contained in the stories is more than just fantasy. Keep in mind, PBS is not part of the religious right."

Chamber of Secrets is the darkest book in the series. Course, if you have read the book you would of known that.
PBS as a source, wow that's rich.
On TV you can find someone to support your claim, however wrong it may be. Haha, i would like to see the pagan parallels. I bet they took it way out of proportion.

Chuck Colson is an apostate wolf giving sheep wicked counsel.

Are. you. kidding. me?
Says who?

I have not...nor have I read Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft, Secret Doctrines or the Satanic Bible. There is power in words and allowing witches to get a foothold in your mind is not to your spiritual advantage.

Let me ask you if I may, during the time you read your last Harry Potter book did you read more or less pages of your Bible than the Potter book?

If you havent read the Harry Potter book where are you getting the right to tell it off. You haven't read it. You don't know much about it. Where are you getting you informationfrom? Your opinion to me on this matter has no importance.

And with the second part, that is stupid. How many people read Cinderella or Snow White or Lord of the Rings and the Bible in between?

Of course you have, everyone is a Christian nowadays. Jessica Simpson, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Mel Gibson, people even think W is a Christian. If Rowling was a Biblical Christian she wouldn't be promoting witchcraft.

Billy Graham not a Christian?? Pat Robertson not a Christian?? A truly godly men who have done so much for others? Well who do think a Christian is..... Benny Hinn?

Here's how you can test the spirit of Ms. Rowlings...

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galations 5:19-21

How can you test her spirit when you don't know the author, the books your objecting, its rather witless.

Rylee

06-12-2006, 04:39 PM

Well if it somehow does it isn't very good. Seeing as 90% of the stuff she made up. And the "spells" are latin. And clearly if you have EVER READ an Harry Potter book you would CLEARLY see their is no education of the sort!

"J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series, has gone through an awful lot of research. She is very accurate (otherwise we would have witches all over the country and the world saying 'this is not a true representation of our religion'.) This is a true representation of witchcraft, and the black arts, and black magic. And yet we have people that say this is merely fantasy and harmless reading for our children. Actually, what makes this more dangerous is that it is couched in fantasy language, and children's literature, and made to be humorous, and beautifully written and extremely provocative reading. and it just opens up children to want to have the next one. This is what is so harmful."

Source: Caryl Matrisciana as quoted in Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged © 2001, Jeremiah Films.

Daphne

06-12-2006, 04:47 PM

"J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series, has gone through an awful lot of research. She is very accurate (otherwise we would have witches all over the country and the world saying 'this is not a true representation of our religion'.) This is a true representation of witchcraft, and the black arts, and black magic. And yet we have people that say this is merely fantasy and harmless reading for our children. Actually, what makes this more dangerous is that it is couched in fantasy language, and children's literature, and made to be humorous, and beautifully written and extremely provocative reading. and it just opens up children to want to have the next one. This is what is so harmful."

Source: Caryl Matrisciana as quoted in Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged © 2001, Jeremiah Films.

It's not accurate it's made up! It's accurate if you say one of these spells and your cup turned into an animal. If it's so accurate why dont we see kids flying around on broomsticks and or doing a daydream charm?

And with Caryl Matrisciana, you can write what you want to write but it doesn't make it true.

Daphne

06-12-2006, 04:50 PM

Rylee

06-12-2006, 04:57 PM

The links may look biased, but provide factual information. Can you provide me with evidence that they "made up" their information?

I have read the book.

And to me, it looks like a story with a lot of witchcraft... where the main focus is witchcraft. A story based around boy going to a school to learn about witchcraft, and a story about practicing witchcraft.

Where am I wrong?

Rylee

06-12-2006, 05:00 PM

It's not accurate it's made up! It's accurate if you say one of these spells and your cup turned into an animal. If it's so accurate why dont we see kids flying around on broomsticks and or doing a daydream charm?

Witchcraft isn't made up. Sure, the majority of this book may be fiction, but witchcraft is real... anything promoting witchcraft should be avoided, especially by those who may be persuaded in to believing that it's okay.

Rufus

06-12-2006, 05:22 PM

And wow a lot of those links are so biased.
I wonder how many of them actually got their own information and actaully read the book.

If people would just read the book, they would see how truly wrong they are about Harry Potter.

Truly wrong about what? Could you be more specific?

Question: Are the Harry Potter Books about Witchraft?

Answer: Yes

Q: Are the heroes of the Harry Potter Books engaged in Witchcraft and thus glorify it?

A: Yes

Q: Does God say that witchcraft is a sin?:

A: Yes

Q: Does God make exceptions for "Good" witchcraft versus "bad" witchcraft?

A: No

Q: Does Harry Potter advance the Kingdom of God?

A: No

Q: Should Christians put evil before their eyes?

A: No. They should abstain from all appearances of evil.

Q: Is there any conceivable reason for why a Christian should read these books or watch the movies or even worse, allow their children to do so?

A: None has been made apparent.

Q: Is it possible that by reading these books the reader could become brain-washed by them and find it important to seduce Christians into reading them?

A: It would seem like it.

Not only were the links that Rylee provided, doctrinally sound in my discernment, here is a summary of their 12 reasons why we should not see the movies.. Can you provide 12 reasons why we should read the books or see the movies? What is your motivation for advocating for these books?:

Twelve reasons not to see Harry Potter Movies (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/HP-Movie.htm)
1. God shows us that witchcraft, sorcery, spells, divination and magic are evil.
2. The movie's foundation in fantasy, not reality, doesn't diminish its power to change beliefs and values.
3. Each occult image and suggestion prompts the audience to feel more at home in this setting.
4. God tells us to "abhor what is evil" and "cling to what is good."
5. Immersed in Hogwarts' beliefs and values, children learn to ignore or reinterpret God's truth.
6. This inner change is usually unconscious, for the occult lessons and impressions tend to bypass rational scrutiny.
7. The main product marketed through this movie is a new belief system.
8. The implied source of power behind Harry's magical feats tend to distort a child's understanding of God.
9. Blind to the true nature of God, children will blend (synthesize) Biblical truth with pagan beliefs and magical practices.
10. God tells us to "train up a child in the way He should go."
11. While some argue that Harry and his friends model friendship and integrity, they actually model how to lie and steal and get away with it.
12. God has a better way.

Rylee

06-12-2006, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the links, but they didn't really provide anything but personal opinion... and the very first website is a tripod website, which anyone can make those, so they're certainly not "official" by any means. But I did read them, and I don't agree with the opinions expressed.

However, I guess that this debate is mostly based on opinion, so I'm not bashing or complaining... I'm just saying that it doesn't provide any factual basis. Since there is very little factual basis available for a debate of this nature, this will end up as one of those "agree to disagree and move on" threads, I'm sure.

Rheged

06-13-2006, 12:14 AM

Man its so evil GOD TOLD US STAY AWAY FROM WITCHCRAFT EVEN IF THERE ARE THEMES IT IS EXPOSEING CHILDREN TO WITCHCRAFT

JESUS IS NOT DUMBELDORE JESUS IS NOT ASLAN JESUS IS NOT GANDALF
JESUS IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD NO ONE ELSE!!!!

Sorry Redeemed777, I don't think I said that Jesus was Gandalf, Aslan or Dumbledore. Here is what I said:

[QUOTE=Rheged]Not rightly sure myself. Depends which bit of the books you look at. If you take the first thing you read/see, then I would say that the books glorify sorcery, but then at the same time, disdain it ('good' guys and 'bad' guys on both sides). On the other hand, if you look at the characters themselves, I would say that yes, they are ok. A good example here, is that the character Dumbeldore, Harry's mentor, is of the opinion that love and goodness will ultimately win over hate and nastiness. Evidence of the 'good' side of the books is presented right at the start of the sequence, where Harry's mother and father both die to protect him, his mother's sacrifice resulting in Harry being able to withstand Voldemort and giving him a form of protection against the aforementioned bad guy. Unfortunately for the good side of the book, the majority of younger children (christian or otherwise) are not going to see the underlying message (re. dumbeldore) and will instead see spellcasting as 'fun'.

Final answer: Okay for older children.[/QUOUTE]

I was referring to the messages within the story rather than the characters contained within. If I remember rightly, the laws in the Bible concerning witchcraft, mediums and necromancy refer to the practice of those trades, rather than writing ficticious books with them in.

Yes, I agree that a young child (or anyone else who has difficulty spotting reality from fiction), would be vulnerable to the bad bits of the books, however I believe that with a proper Christian guidance and upbringing from the parents/guardians, then older children should be ok to read them.

Redeemed777

06-13-2006, 12:21 AM

Im sorry witchcraft in any form is wrong and against God
HOW IS HARRY POTTER FUTHERING THE KINGDOM OF GOD????
witchcraft in any form is wrong
dont disagree with me because God is against witchcraft his word shows it

paintedfaces

06-13-2006, 09:55 AM

Well, since Harry Potter is a fictional book, a fantasy. There is no witchcraft. Unless, you call a cauldron, dragon, or a broom witchcraft? Because most of all Rowling's information is made up.

How is Gone With the Wind furthering the Kingdom of God?
How is Cinderella furthering the Kingdom of God?
How is Pride and Prejudice furthering the Kingdom of God?

What a dumb question, not a lot of books do, but that doesn't mean we should not read great literature like Poe, Chaucer, Chesterton, Dickens, Austen, Lewis, Tolkien....

Rylee

06-13-2006, 10:28 AM

There is no witchcraft.

...yet it's based around a school that teaches witchcraft? That would not make for a very good story if the majority of it takes place in a school for witchcraft and it doesn't even have witchcraft in it...

Javert03

06-13-2006, 05:32 PM

I would like to first say that I have not read the Harry Potter books, so I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about their content and the effect of it. Secondly, I'd just like to ask a question that might help this discussion. If witchcraft/sorcery is a sin (I think we all agree on that), and if in the Harry Potter story all the good characters are wizards/witches (it seems most here would agree on that), is it a book that a Christian should read?

Or let's change the sin we're talking about (I might be going out on a limb here). Let's say there's a great new book promoting friendship and loyalty, but all the good characters are sodomites and adulterers. Would that be a good book for Christians to read?

We can say it's all fictitious, and therefore not a problem, but how far are we willing to take this reasoning?

Now one could also say that all the witchcraft in Harry Potter is fake: it's not the real thing. But does that make it safe? If in the example I gave, the book never describes the act of adultery, but just implies it, does that make it any better?

Anyway, just something to think about. :-D

Gwen

06-13-2006, 05:51 PM

Nope, I don't think Harry Potter is for any christian. God is strickly against witchcraft. And in my book... that means NO!

Collegeguy

07-12-2006, 12:17 AM

Ok ,then Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White etc. are all against God too. They display witchcraft and magic.

Rufus

07-12-2006, 01:00 AM

Ok ,then Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White etc. are all against God too. They display witchcraft and magic.

Excellent points Collegeguy. I agree...all the movies you quoted are against God. You can add, Robin Hood and the Lion King to that list as well and throw in that cute little pixey that floats around Cinderalla's castle for good measure.Do you believe that 33 degree freemason, Walt Disney, was looking after God's interests when he promoted all of this sorcery and witchcraft? You think the current leadership of Disney is interested in our children's salvation?

Perhaps you could quote scripture that will make a case for allegorical witchcraft and sorcery being okay? In the meantime all we have to work off of is that witchcraft is a work of the flesh and thus it should not be glorified.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galations 5:19-21

Beach_Bum

07-12-2006, 10:34 AM

I think it depends how the child takes the movie..Or movies now..
Some watch it and go around talking about it and the next thing u know is they want to dress like them and use witchcraft..others just watch it and dont take it so seriously....

paintedfaces

07-12-2006, 02:11 PM

Excellent points Collegeguy. I agree...all the movies you quoted are against God. You can add, Robin Hood and the Lion King to that list as well and throw in that cute little pixey that floats around Cinderalla's castle for good measure.Do you believe that 33 degree freemason, Walt Disney, was looking after God's interests when he promoted all of this sorcery and witchcraft? You think the current leadership of Disney is interested in our children's salvation?

Walt Disney did not promote witchcraft.
Are you against the wizard of oz too?
Disney promotes moral tales.
Stories like Cinderella are great tales that were written in the 14th century.
Great pieces of literature.
What about shakespeare?
Macbeth..the the evil witches ..should kids not read those books either?

Perhaps you could quote scripture that will make a case for allegorical witchcraft and sorcery being okay? In the meantime all we have to work off of is that witchcraft is a work of the flesh and thus it should not be glorified.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galations 5:19-21

Harry Potter is not glorified.
It's a book.
Ficitonal.
Spells: fictional
People:Fictional
90% of the book: FICTIONAL.

It's not a book about step-by-step becoming a wizard.
It doesn't teach you about becoming a wizard.

I just don't see how you can talk about this book when you haven't read it.
When i was doing a thesis paper about the problems of the Quran and Islam i didn't go to chrisitian authors and see what they said i went to the Quran(in english) and read. I made my own opinion on it. Can you really talk about a book you have never read?

Rufus

07-12-2006, 03:48 PM

Walt Disney did not promote witchcraft.

1913 Webster's
Promote = To contribute to the growth, enlargement, or prosperity of

Walt was directly involved in projects including Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Fantasia, and Pinocchio. Each of those films promoted witchcraft particularly Fantasia, which had Mickey in a Merlin hat waving a wand around engaged in magic. Just because it's cute and animated doesn't mean it is not sorcery/witchcraft. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Are you against the wizard of oz too?
Absolutely! Good witches, bad witches, spells, crystal balls, flying monkeys. How much witchcraft should we put before our eyes before we call it witchcraft?

Macbeth..the the evil witches ..should kids not read those books either?
I would not be as adamant against MacBeth as at least the witches in that play were portrayed as evil and not much good came out of listening to their prophesies.

Harry Potter is not glorified.
Perhaps, "glorified" may not be the correct term. However, he is a witch and he is the hero of the book and he's definitely raised up higher than muggles like me ;).

It's a book.
Ficitonal.
Spells: fictional
People:Fictional
90% of the book: FICTIONAL.

No one has denied this.

I just don't see how you can talk about this book when you haven't read it.

Do I need to read the Satanic Bible to talk about how evil it is? Do I need to read erotica so that I can be qualified to say that it is evil?

Here is a partial synopsis of the Sorcerer's Stone from Harry Potter Games site:

Sorcerer's Stone - Harry Potter learns of his parents, and the magical world they lived in before he was orphaned at an early age. After 10 years of life with his very unmagical relatives, Harry is given a place at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Plunging unprepared into the wizarding world, which lies in and around the world of non magical people, called muggles by magical folk,

I don't think it is necessary that I read this book in order to intellectually conclude that the hero is a wizard who engages in witchcraft. I do find it fascinating however, that the adherents of the Church of Potter think it is so vital that Christians be exposed to this evil.

Please forgive the plethora of scripture below, I am just praying that one of these verses will convince you that witchcraft is wicked in the site of our Lord.
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Exodus 22:18

"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God." - Leviticus 19:31

"Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD."- 2 Kings 23:24

"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch." - Deuteronomy 18:10

"And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger." - 2 Chronicles 33:6

"The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses: Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts.Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame." - Nahum 3:3-5

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:19-21

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." - Revelation 22:8

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. - Revelation 22:15

sonya aka casey

07-15-2006, 06:08 PM

the only defirrence between chronicles of narnia the lion . the witch and the wardrobe and the movie Harry Potter ... is that Narnia has the word WITCH in the title and Harry Potter has the word harry in the title ... both of these titles combined together decribe a very HARRY WITCH in my opinion and anyone that claims to Love the Lord should not watch these movies ... because the bible clearly says witchcraft is a sin !

WhiterThanSnow

07-17-2006, 10:19 PM

Rufus, I really respect what you have to say. Thank you for all of your posts, I appriciate your convictions and backing them up with the Word and challenging us to think outside the box.

Heavenbound

07-18-2006, 10:07 AM

I believe Harry Potter could be used to the Christian advantage for older christian children who understand the difference between evil and good, and the difference between magic and miracles. If parents take the time to explain this to children there is no reason Harry Potter should be any different from any other made up story. But when younger children see these type of movies, not Harry Potter in particular, then they start to wonder and believe. This is what leads to outside evils. If parents take the time to educate and monitor what there children watch, then I believe Harry Potter could be beneficial.

Rufus

07-18-2006, 10:07 AM

Rufus, I really respect what you have to say. Thank you for all of your posts, I appriciate your convictions and backing them up with the Word and challenging us to think outside the box.

Thank you Whiter. It is very kind and edifying of you to say these things. :-)

Ron22

10-05-2006, 05:04 PM

I appologize if there has been a thread on this subject, I have never seen one. I have seen it discussed in the chatroom many times.
I know many say harry potter is just fiction, and just a movie, I know many christians who read the books and watch the movies. I can honestly say I have never read the books, and never have watched one of the movies, I have just seen the movie trailers, and to me and my family, that was enough to say I just ain't interested, to me looked like alot of witchcraft.
Now for someone who knows more about it someone said in the chatroom that the author was a wicca, is this true?
I really never had much to say about it till a couple of years ago, when at the mall here in maine, at the release of a new book, there was hundreds of kids running around the mall dressded as lil' witches and warlocks casting spells on people, and the local wicca's had a table handing out papers and giving thier blessings on the book and the soon to come out movie.
So what do you all think? I know how I feel, but maybe there is someone who can tell me a reason besides it's just fiction and they like it.
Thank You all very much
Ron

Bouncinstar

10-05-2006, 06:51 PM

In my opinion.. anything we come in contact with.. whether by hearing or seeing.. plants a seed. We as Christians should know right off the bat that God would not want us to partake in what He so adamentally abhors! If we are going to teach our young ones about witch craft.. why not teach them about sex too! The devil is in the media.. use caution, it's his biggest outlet! And our young ones are sponges! God Bless, Lisa

Rufus

10-06-2006, 02:30 PM

Now for someone who knows more about it someone said in the chatroom that the author was a wicca, is this true?

It's a bit semantical but the witchcraft that Rowling writes about is inconsistent with the witchcraft excercised by Wiccans. Is she a Wicccan? I don't think so. Is she a witch? Probably. Is she a Christian as some claim? I doubt it for if she were she wouldn't be writing about something that God abhors.

I really never had much to say about it till a couple of years ago, when at the mall here in maine, at the release of a new book, there was hundreds of kids running around the mall dressded as lil' witches and warlocks casting spells on people, and the local wicca's had a table handing out papers and giving thier blessings on the book and the soon to come out movie.
So what do you all think? We are instructed to train our children up in the way they should go. If you train them to be sexualized they will practice sex, if you train them to be violent they will practice violence, if you train them to be witches, they will become witches.

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - Proverbs 22:6

I know how I feel, but maybe there is someone who can tell me a reason besides it's just fiction and they like it. I look forward to anyone that can answer this question too. The common argument for why Potter is cool is that it is just fantasy (similar arguments are made for Halloween). However, it seems peculair to think that we can pretend to sin or be entertained by sin and think that this is alright with God.

Pumpkin

10-08-2006, 09:35 PM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)
I am a 16 girl and i love Harry Potter. ( I know it sounds werid to be that age and love it that much.) I have posters and autographs from the main characters and I honestly do not see anything wrong with it. Yes it is about witches and wizards but it is not real witchcraft, it does no devil worshiping, and it is not promoting children to do it. And if you pay attention you will notice that they celebrate Christmas in it. Harry Potter is simply a lovely fairytale that allows people ( of all ages ) to leave the stress, and hussle and bussle in the real world. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rufus

10-09-2006, 02:26 PM

Harry Potter is simply a lovely fairytale that allows people ( of all ages ) to leave the stress, and hussle and bussle in the real world. Nothing more, nothing less. Isn't the Holy Bible sufficient for bringing comfort from the stress of the real world?

kellymarie

10-09-2006, 04:53 PM

I am a 16 girl and i love Harry Potter. ( I know it sounds werid to be that age and love it that much.) I have posters and autographs from the main characters and I honestly do not see anything wrong with it. Yes it is about witches and wizards but it is not real witchcraft, it does no devil worshiping, and it is not promoting children to do it. And if you pay attention you will notice that they celebrate Christmas in it. Harry Potter is simply a lovely fairytale that allows people ( of all ages ) to leave the stress, and hussle and bussle in the real world. Nothing more, nothing less.
Pumpkin,even though the characters portrayed in harry aren't real and not using "real" occult,it is still symbolizing the occult many ways.One way is using these "abilities"to manipulate objects and people.Two,witches and wizards are a form of sorcery, totally appalled and unacceptable to our GOD.You may not see all this,as it is hard to with all these "cool" special effects in the movie and all,but it is still symbolizing occult practice.As for the abilities that Harry acquires in the first movie,it is contrary to Gods abilities.He reigns supreme over all that He created,and always will forever.And with Halloween coming up,please know that skulls,vampires,flying skeletons,and bloody teeth are all about death,so are graveyard decorations and coffins filled with bats.Please be careful in your choice of future movies and books.The actors in Harry don't even realize that acting out their roles opened them up to satans influence.Satan delights in what we think is harmless,whether it is fiction or truth.Seek Gods truth.

Rufus

10-13-2006, 11:43 AM

So now that Daniel Radcliffe has engaged in witchcraft, it would appear that he has moved on to the sexual rituals...

Audience get up close and personal for Harry Potter star's nude debut (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=410165&in_page_id=1773)

"...the Harry Potter star, in his role as the troubled groomsman Alan Strang in Peter Shaffer's celebrated play Equus, simulates a sex act while naked and astride a horse."

Dariusc123456

10-25-2006, 09:17 PM

Harry Potter is a sin in the eyes of God. The creator of that movie is a Witch. If anyone beleive this let me know because im planning on stopping the movies, book, etc., because it is a traning movie for witches, warlocks, and anyone that do witchcraft!

bob99

10-26-2006, 06:59 PM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)
I personally think harry potter is a great book adn just because your a christian doesn't mean you can't read it or watch the movies because if you don't want to see anything about whitch craft or teh demons or anything of the devil then i wouldn't suggest watching tv or anything like that. it has to depend on your own view of things and as far as children watching it i'm all for it because it's entertainment but if a parent doesn't want there kids to watch it thats all there opinion and how they want to raise there children

Crikey Cheetah

10-31-2006, 11:06 PM

Well said bob. It's about choice. "We are defined by our choices, Harry, not by our abilities." hehehe... Too true. We may be predisposed to some things, but it is what we choose to do with those predispositions that makes us who we are. God may choose His elect, but only the elect can choose to worship Him properly.

Kerri

11-11-2006, 11:21 PM

Several years ago when the Harry Potter movies first started, I really didn't think it was that big of a deal for anyone to watch them, including Christians. I had never read any of the books but the movies just looked like fun movies for kids. Once I really started thinking about it and applying what God's word says about witchcraft and sorcery, I changed my view completely. In my opinion, the Harry Potter books/movies make these things, that God commands us to stay away from, seem harmless and make-believe. There is a big trend these days of witchcraft and medium TV shows/movies and people (especially kids and teens) are drawn to them. I think it's important for Christian parents to make sure their kids realize the dangers of such practices, and what the bible says about it.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you."

Deut. 18:10-14

Bonita

11-26-2006, 09:10 PM

If the children are old enough to know that magic is not real and that the movie is just for entertaining, then I think Harry Potter is OK.

deeatbethel

11-28-2006, 09:13 AM

I have read all the books and as the parent of 3 children i believe that if i am with them they can watch the movies. These books have caused many children to start reading and using their imagination. Reading these books is not a sin in my book. If you feel convicted about reading them then don't. I do not feel convicted and am looking forward to the next one. Just like I did with the Left Behind series. Reading is important to me and my children and if i can get them to read that is good. My kids and I discuss all movies and books we read. Good points and bad points. Good and evil and they understand that the books are fantsy and not real.

lil' Val

12-03-2006, 12:16 AM

i like it...but my mom begs to differ! hehe, i dont care though. she cant stop me from likeing what i like!!

childofchrist1992

12-12-2006, 07:12 PM

I honestely think that you can watch it just as a fun fairy tale but its when you start believing in it when it gets bad.

tedz

12-15-2006, 05:01 PM

i'm not sure; not enough info

A&W

12-28-2006, 11:21 AM

I think movies is a difference of opinion however, one should not judge another for watching such movies. It is NOT your right to judge others, it is GODS. Don't be hypocritical towards those who choose to watch movies with witchcraft or magic powers in it.

BBYN

12-31-2006, 07:14 PM

IM not sure wether it is or not.. i guess it just depends on the parents. wether they think that their child would beable to keep thier focus on God and know that witch craft and wizardry is wrong. But if the child is weak in thier faith then i would not suggest it as a book for them.

stardust

01-04-2007, 02:56 AM

To the people who said no to Harry Potter, would you say no to The Wizard of Oz also? Because there are two witchs in there. A good witch and a bad wtich. .... and the title of the movie has the word wizard.

tiger40136

01-04-2007, 05:26 PM

God tells us to stay away from witch craft and although it seem harmless if God said not to be a part of it i think that is exactly what we should do!

Gratitude Servant

01-05-2007, 09:52 AM

I feel that there is balance. Christianity I feel has an air of (good) witchcraft. There are a lot of things we do not understand and that makes it seem witchy. Our angels are all around us, flying, rescuing us, helping us if we ask. The show just uses more (evil) witchcraft. I believe we do have both in this world. God created us in his image. With great power out of the dust of the earth!

christian_babe122

01-05-2007, 08:44 PM

me personally, i like harry potter, i kno the characters actions ect are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only...i kno God would have let me kno if it was a sin and i dont feel that it is so it must bo ok to watch movies and read books...but i kno i shouldnt DO the witchcraft and such, that of course is apparent....i think ur rite i think there is sum Godly witchcraft, but magic and such is deff. of the devil

christian_babe122

01-05-2007, 08:47 PM

i agree, my sister duznt approve of the books, yet she reads and watches lord of the rings, wich ALSO has magic in them

by the way, they werent MEANT for children..these books were meant for YOUNG ADULTS, TEENS AND ADULTS not kids below the age of i would say 13

mrsd81

01-09-2007, 03:10 PM

It is a children's fantasy, just like the Wizard of Oz, Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, etc. Unless a child cannot separate fantasy from reality, it is fine. My son knows the stories are "made up". He hasn't tried to fly on my broom ( like he'd even touch a broom in the first place), nor has he tried to cast a spell on the cat. It is just a story, like the fairy tales I enjoyed as a child.

kcocluv

01-09-2007, 05:35 PM

as a child i read similar books such as roald dahl's 'the witches' and pavlik dei medici's 'k-hole' and sometimes felt disturbed and confused over what was true and what was not. thankfully as i got older God showed me truth.

as christians we cannot allow our children to be scared because they cannot see the truth!

GodsWrath07

02-19-2007, 08:50 PM

madrabidsh33p

03-03-2007, 09:01 PM

I say not.
Why?
Because witch craft deals with demons and Satan- which obviously is not a good thing.
Harry Potter books portray witch craft as good, when in reality is the farthest thing from good- and God.

Chels

03-23-2007, 03:20 AM

NO! sorry but some of the things in Harry Potter, out children should not be watching. It gives our young people sometimes ideas that witches and magic are ok. But these things are not from out Jesus.

Rufus

05-09-2007, 02:35 PM

God is in control

05-16-2007, 01:27 PM

Withcraft NO!! In the old testament they would have been stoned to death!

elect lady

05-17-2007, 04:37 AM

No, if my children were young, I wouldn't want them to read the books or see the movies. I do confess though, that I watched The Wizard of Oz. The movie, Bedknobs and Broomsticks (Disney) had spells from The Book of Asteroth. According to http://www.search.com/reference/Astaroth Astaroth is the Grand Duke of hell. Christian parents need to watch for the subtily of the devil and how his works are planted in the movies and books for children.

flowerchick

05-21-2007, 05:52 AM

yes, i agree with you there,
Harry Potter is being taken far too seriously, and i dont think that this was the intention at all.

faithful child

05-25-2007, 01:47 PM

No because it shows magic and that is wrong because it is witch craft and witch craft is wrong.

coveredbygrace

06-12-2007, 02:14 AM

I honestly think that you can watch it just as a fun fairy tale but its when you start believing in it when it gets bad.

i have to agree with that statement...i also agree with flower....it has been taken too far...i doubt this is what the author had in mind....i have read every book and see every movie so far and look froward to the new book and movie...

now as for children watching it absolutely not.....this is not a movie for children or pre-teens for 2 reasons...
1. children do not understand whats really real and whats make-believe
2.way too much violence and some bad language and attitudes

children should not be exposed to these things....

Servant17

06-14-2007, 06:11 PM

"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observor of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer all that do these things are an abomination unto YHWH" (Debarim/Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

-Servant

Roxy

06-17-2007, 03:26 PM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)
Absolutely Yes! This is make believe everyone. Children understand that especially if you explain it to them. They do not see this as a life style, that's ridiculous. I raised my kids, now 18 yr boy and 14 yr girl, being with them while they witnessed certain movies and news stories so that I could give them my views and give them honest explanations of things. Both of my kids are very well adjusted, calm, the sex, alcohol and drug thing does not interest them because they already know all about it. I allowed all of their curiosity to be answered in terms they could understand at whatever age they were when they asked. If you keep things secret from your kids, when they leave home, age appropriate, and begin to be exposed to things, you won't be there to talk with them about it. And don't kid yourselves, chances are they will not call you to ask you about it then. I think everyone needs to be there constantly for your children. Make sure they know answers to their questions from you, not their friends.

faithful child

06-17-2007, 04:42 PM

no they are not becuase they have magic in them

xandrina

06-28-2007, 04:38 AM

What do you think about CS Lewis's other works? My understanding was that as a Christian author, Lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia to be an allegory to the Bible.

HeSavedMe9

07-03-2007, 03:49 PM

but does it really matter if we know magic is not real?

Roxy

07-08-2007, 10:50 AM

but does it really matter if we know magic is not real?
So should we banish stories and movies like "The Wizard of OZ", "Hansel and Gretel", "Sleeping Beauty", "Snow White"...etc. They all have witchcraft in them. Teach your children the difference between FICTION and Non-Fiction. If you give your kids a good foundation of Christ and teach them right from wrong, they will understand the difference between real and not real when you teach them. Do your children grow up believing elephants can fly after watching Dumbo? Or wolves can really speak like in Red Riding Hood? Of course not because once children are taught real from fake or right from wrong and you continue teaching them as they grow, they know whats right and real. Sheltering your kids from the world only to have to discover it on their own after they leave the house sets up all kinds of problems. If you don't tell them something is wrong, then it is possible in their minds as they become independent and make their own decisions, they will allow themselves to experience things you never said NO to. Or explained why it's bad or wrong or not real. That is a part of parenting.

corbinfire

07-08-2007, 04:09 PM

I think one of the reason the "body of Christ" has become so weakened and watered down is because of the things that we allow. We are to hate what God hates and Love what He loves.

superprettyinpink

07-09-2007, 10:37 PM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)
:td no,cause it has to do with witches and spells and stuff like that.

llamaofhappiness

07-11-2007, 02:08 PM

I chose other because I don't believe they're wrong: they're just a basic struggle between good and evil; yet obviously just because they're not bad doesn't mean they're good.

Tee76

07-24-2007, 07:10 PM

The Wizard of Oz was as abominable as Harry Potter is today.

How right you are.

roysim

08-19-2007, 09:56 PM

Hi Rufus,

I agreed with the scriptures you said, witch craft is something God never forgive the children of Israel, when they sin.

Kellys1981

08-20-2007, 08:32 AM

i definitely am strongly against harry potter and his satanic cohorts. the book is written in strong satanic overtones and it is not a good idea for a young christian child to read these sorts of things. i dont like chronicles of narnia or lord of the rings either. i personally think that they are all satanic in one way or another. they use power and forces that do not come from God, but are given to them by devils. i think they are all satanic masterpieces, BUT, the worst of them all is Harry Potter. HP is the most outwardly satanic of all of them. therefore, i dont recommend it and i think the christians should stay away from it.

C.S. Lewis was a christian who wrote about biblical themes and principles in a form that was not at all what young people expect. If a child with christian parents read the narnia books and then asked their parents questions about the themes and characters parents would see that the themes behind the books had roots in christianity. As for the others I am not sure but if a child knows the difference between fantasy and reality then there should be very little danger in these books. Parents just need to stay vigilant and make sure that they are ready for questions about good and evil and right and wrong.

Eponine

10-17-2007, 09:39 AM

There's is nothing wrong morally with Harry Potter books, but the movies, like pretty much any M rated movies are not suitable for any children.

Faith

10-28-2007, 09:44 PM

I think one of the reason the "body of Christ" has become so weakened and watered down is because of the things that we allow. We are to hate what God hates and Love what He loves.

How right you are.

Faith

10-28-2007, 10:07 PM

i like it...but my mom begs to differ! hehe, i dont care though. she cant stop me from likeing what i like!!

Please listen to your mother, sweetie.

Deuteronomy 5:16 (New International Version)

16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Faith

10-28-2007, 10:18 PM

Lets just look at the Bible and see what it says about witchcraft/sorcery.

Here is one (there are several more):
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galations 5:19-21

Then think about the following verses:

Mark 4:9
9Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

"I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes:" - Psalm 101:3a

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." 1 Thess. 5:22

Mark 8:34
34Then He called the crowd to Him along with His disciples and said: "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

Understand?

Everyone, "...we are to be separate from the world, and that we should strive for the holiness that God has called his children to."

inHisshadow

10-30-2007, 07:52 PM

there is something very wrong with any book or movie that tries to show sorcery in an inviting and woderful manner. Do you think Jesus would like Harry Potter.

Faith

10-31-2007, 03:44 PM

there is something very wrong with any book or movie that tries to show sorcery in an inviting and woderful manner. Do you think Jesus would like Harry Potter.

Nope... I believe He would greatly oppose it.

inHisshadow

11-01-2007, 05:55 AM

Teach them by all means but do not glorify what has been forbidden by
GOD. He is the one to glorify

Allen

12-04-2007, 03:03 PM

In days gone by, we had movies like The 10 Commandments, The Robe, etc.
It took alot of money to make epic movies like this, they say they can afford to make movies like this these days as the costs would be astronomical.
Now we are stuck with cheesy movies of witchcraft, sorcery etc.
Sad, quite sad.
When I say chessy, compare the 10 commandments to the movies these days.
Just my opinion. Dont weep or gnash your teeth.

Allen

12-04-2007, 03:24 PM

I chose other because I don't believe they're wrong: they're just a basic struggle between good and evil; yet obviously just because they're not bad doesn't mean they're good.
Evil cannot combat Evil, they are 1 and the same.
No such thing as good majic and bad majic.
Its all bad.
Witchcraft, sorcery, soothsaying, casting spells, fortune telling are all bad.

Allen

12-04-2007, 03:49 PM

Absolutely Yes! This is make believe everyone. Children understand that especially if you explain it to them. They do not see this as a life style, that's ridiculous. I raised my kids, now 18 yr boy and 14 yr girl, being with them while they witnessed certain movies and news stories so that I could give them my views and give them honest explanations of things. Both of my kids are very well adjusted, calm, the sex, alcohol and drug thing does not interest them because they already know all about it. I allowed all of their curiosity to be answered in terms they could understand at whatever age they were when they asked. If you keep things secret from your kids, when they leave home, age appropriate, and begin to be exposed to things, you won't be there to talk with them about it. And don't kid yourselves, chances are they will not call you to ask you about it then. I think everyone needs to be there constantly for your children. Make sure they know answers to their questions from you, not their friends.
Proverbs chapter 22 verse 15. Proverbs chapter 22 verse 6.
Children require guidence.
I dont allow my Children to play with fire, then explain how to use fire responsibly.
Children may tell you one thing when you are with them, then do the complete oposite when you are not there.
You were once a child, you know how it is.
Children are developing and are not in a position (unless parents allow them)
to make adult choices.

chocoiste

12-09-2007, 03:51 AM

The question to consider: let us read Harry Potter the series of book and to look at the films; also, can we in the good conscience present these things at our children if we hope to raise them like God fearing Christians?

I believe that there is no clear or obvious answer here. For viewers (adult) of these films, it is a question of personal opinion and what you prefer. If you believe that the film will be amusing and satisfactory, then certainly, see it. If you are curious about the books, give them a test. I am only requesting you to think and keep the dialogue between you and God largely open. Do not exist in a vaccuum with these objects or do not let the obsession form. You must ensure that you also continue Christian options of entertainment and you connect to the support and to Christian friends.

Where children are concerned, I do not believe that the films or the books seem satisfactory or acceptable to the children. In this moment, my son is only two years old and does not have any interest for these things, for which I am very happy. In my reading of the series, I believe that the first two books and probably the third would be acceptable for older children above the age of 10 or 12, but the later books of the series are very dark and contain dubious topics. Violence, murder, treason, lies, confusion, magic and similar bad are very found in the later books and are much more widespread in them than in the early books of the series, which is perhaps why I would say strictly limit them for no matter whom below 14 or 16.

Do I think the magic of Harry Potter is true? Not, I do not. That magic are pretend, it is all the make believe. The author describes imagination, not reality. However, though Harry Potter the magic does not resemble the wicca also called in reality magic/witchcraft, I think that it can delude the impressionable children into the wicca. Harry Potter seems to make magic beautiful and fun. It is employed to facilitate the lives of the characters. The principal character, Harry, is so happy to discover that he is a magician. Other characters are excited while they learn from new magic tricks and spells. I think that this would conspire to call upon the children and to make them the wish that they also had magic capacities like their preferred characters. They cannot live as Harry Potter, but if they learned later from sorcery or of the wicca they could follow it because of their love of Harry Potter the magic.

Take the common sense, all the Christians, and the prayer to God and the good direction as your weapon before engaging in Harry Potter.

lil_ridin_hood

12-09-2007, 05:48 PM

I know a man that was in the occult and I met him as a christian. He told me his stories and one was how some spells in the Harry Potter book are real. He had actually heard them said and saw them work and has said them himself. He saw what they can do and it hurts him to see kids playing video games in duels against each other, they are using real spells. For kids to read these like a best friend. It scares himand now me. I try my best to tell people the truth behind the pages. I am 14 and that right there convinced me that Harry Potter isn't what I thought, fiction, but in the most dangerous way, it is non fiction.

Amy_Sparkle

01-24-2008, 12:50 PM

I think the harry potter movies are fine for christian children.
They are purely amusement, like any other film! Lots of films include supernatural things, but its not as though the children believe, or try to act like that! Its like, "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe", that includes magic aspects too! Harry potter is purely fun.
It is peoples choice whether they watch the movies or not, but I really don't think they will anger God, as they are not lessons or anything, just films! I am a young christian, and I personally enjoy the harry potter films. It doesnt make any difference to my relationship with God.
God Bless!
Amy

truthhurtsdealwitit

02-28-2008, 10:42 AM

My daughter loves Harry Potter. She also loves Yahweh. I teach her things that she needs to know. I teach her about the Creator and the Messiah. It is a movie , simple as that. Just a movie.

Yahweh bless!

InChrist

04-03-2008, 10:37 PM

No. I do not believe that Christian children have any need to watch the occult and witchcraft practices of Harry Potter or any thing like them. I have seen the first movie, maybe the second... and I do not intend on wasting anymore time on this waste of talent...meaning actors/actresses that could be using their talents for 'good' rather then promoting 'evil' and making it look normal and fun. THERE IS NOTHING FUN about witchcraft, wizardry, or occult practices.

SATAN is just fooling the Christian children into thinking it is 'safe' and 'fun' and JUST A MOVIE or JUST A BOOK... it is not.

WAKE UP!!! Christians...need to be looking at GOD...not the works of the devil himself! What purpose does watching this movie or reading this book bring to the glory of God, His Kingdom or with teaching others about God, Jesus and the mercy of the Christ.

THE ANSWER IS: NOTHING... these books do not teach CHRISTIANS anything.

The other movie and book series that is just as evil, is the "The Golden Compass"... this is evil in book and theatrical form...

SATAN's work. NOT OF GOD.

Blessings.

Dani

04-05-2008, 10:59 AM

Are the Harry Potter movies for christian children?:)

Harry Potter builds up witches and the occult to look like something desirable. A Christian should not watch this and a Christian parent should not allow their children to watch this. It's not innocent, it's the occult, nothing is innocent about the occult.

aka

04-20-2008, 08:41 PM

The absence of direct corruption (Cusing, nudity,..) in the films makes it a good clean show, however, anything that effects the heart or mind negatively in opposition to the LORD is not healthy. So it would fall upon the viewer & how it effects them. The Three Stooges were clean, yet hit each other a lot, were they promoting violence or goofing around? I knew a kid who tried to fly from a tall tree top after watching Superman.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Romans 14:13-15

imanieyes

04-20-2008, 11:25 PM

Mickey Mouse is another famous wizard if you think about it. Go to any Disney website and you will see the word magic. However most people including Christians perceives this mouse as friendly. There are alot of pictures of him with a wizard hat with stars on it. Are the two (Harry Potter and Mickey Mouse) on the same boat? Is it okay to for Christian children to go to Disney World?

Personally I have never watched or read anything Harry Potter. I do not think Christian children or adults should get involved with this character. But this character is not the only on out there that is evil to God. You have all these Superheroes most of us grew up watch that claim to "save the world from evil". This is another ploy of the devil to take away our focus on Jesus. Children are more knowledgeable of Superheroes than Jesus Christ. They know more about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny than the real reason for the season.
When I have children I would prefer they know the truth and focus on the love Jesus as oppose to them loving a character that doesnt know they exist.
This is a great questions that opens the eyes to many deceits of the evil one. Satan will do anything to take our eyes off Jesus' love for us. And that "anything" usually starts with something simple that seems so harmless.

emgrace

05-13-2008, 04:12 PM

I was raised in a strict Christian home, and did not even see Wizard of Oz until I was in my 20's. Bewitched was definitly out of the question, Mary Poppins was very questionalble. These bans in our lives did not keep my sisters and myself from pretending to be able to do magical things, make things appear magically, go from place to place magically. It was using our imagination.

I was strongly opposed to the Harry Potter Books. And I decided to read to see what it was I was opposing. How can you be ignorant about something and yet oppose it? I really enjoyed the books. My oldest lost interest quickly, but what he did read, opened lots of conversations on the Bible's good vs. bad, as well as occult practices, such as psychics, and fortune tellers. This lead me to teach me children that God brought down a king for going to a fortune teller. If God could bring down a King for that, do you think that is something you want to participate in? It really did open some dialouge that we don't usually cover. Usually it's the strict 10 commandments with kids and same old Bible Story. And one day, they have to go into this world to make a living. They need to know what is out there waiting.

stardust

05-17-2008, 02:28 AM

If you say no to harry potter.. to read or see the movies.. Is it okay to see chronicles of narnia prince caspian? I would think not if you said no to harry potter.. Or the wizard of oz. or worst witch or any other stuff like it then.. Or do you say yes to one and on to the other?

corrie

05-23-2008, 03:06 AM

The question put here related to Harry Potter - and yes, stardust, there are numerous other 'No's' for sure also! Just because we (or at least many of us) grew up with fairy tales, disney fantasies, and so on drummed into our heads via the media and because it is marketable stuff, does NOT mean it is in fact positive material to promote Christian principles!
I believe the Harry Potter example was used because of it's exceptionally high popularity and its topical currentness. MANY others would fail the grade in terms of tests against christianity.
As a child I was exposed to Father Christmas (You would probably know the old man as Santa Claus) - and although there is absolutely NO reason for an old guy to wear a heavy red fur lined coat and boots and a cap in Africa in December (the height of our summer), children kind of idolised him then in the 1950's, and still do now all over the world. A mad old man that should be stinking of sweat under the African sun in that outfit! (But of course he would need a Coke!)
Simple enchanting fantasies just stick so much easier than the wiser messages from the Bible - and if we did more to emphasize the biblical good news, we would certainly be doing our children a favour!
When children are punished, I have not heard anyone say 'for the next two weeks you will not be allowed to go to Sunday School', but rather 'No TV for the next 3 days' is common. That alone tells me that the TV is more important to those children than the Sunday School.
Movies and popularity and peer acceptance and fantasies and imaginative realities all often relate to the same thing called sin. Doing things to be seen as bigger and better, which is no different really than the vanity of Lucifer!
Bible study, simplicity, humbleness, Christianity, reality is often rejected as being lowly pursuits - even by Christians, to whom wealth and status is often of greater importance.

Of course we need to also guard against the total isolation as found in some sects. After all, our worldly needs do also exist and if we all just sit and mope on a heap of ash, that would also be pretty negative even to dedicated Christians.

waterword

05-27-2008, 10:14 AM

why should any of these be wrong for those with imagination to wish to learn more? in most instances, knowledge is power. if we know and understand what is imagination and what is not, then there cannot be a problem... or shouldn't be a problem anyway. the harry potter series is reminiscent of Aesop's fables - a fictional story with a moral background. true, GOD isn't the main focus, but in the end the light defeats the darkness. to restrict something like this from any inquisitive mind will only allow. rather prove what is good in the LORD:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

corrie

05-27-2008, 04:59 PM

Sure, if power is what you wish to pursue, and if knowledge is enhanced by fables, and the combination of power and fable knowledge will lead to salvation, I would even retract what I said.

Remember that here, on Christian Chat Forum, the focus is on the Christianity, not the psychology. Had this been a website for the appreciation of art in all its forms regardless of the religious consequences, and had I felt a need to visit such a site, maybe I would have expressed a different view.

For myself, and for my children's sake, I prefer to stick to the simple pursuit of moral knowledge from the word of God, and leave the power to remain with God.

The scriptural references quoted have also been used many times by alcoholics, drug addicts, and offenders of many crimes, as a 'reason' to try pot at least once, and to do all kinds of things with their great personal wisdom knowing that they just did it to 'prove all things' in order to 'hold fast that which is good'. Of course, they would have repented and rejected these bad things, just a pity that they were caught.

Sin does not refer to those things a sinner does and gets caught doing by other humans. Sin is that which is done by humans (even in thoughts) against God's will, whether caught by the cops or not!

What's wrong then with 'Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil... for THINE is the kingdom, the POWER and the glory forever...'

I prefer the latter, but maybe 40 years ago I might have agreed with your views. I also tried one or two things in my day, and God taught me a few lessons along the way as He is still doing now despite my 60 years of proving the ways of the world and holding fast to those which He blessed me to distinguish as good! Despite even that, I am still just a sinner needing God for salvation EVERY DAY.

Have a happy day Waterword!