Tongues acceptance... [Archive] - Christian Chat Forum

blueheron32

02-06-2006, 06:22 PM

Godsent..:-)

This issue has nothing to do with free will or predestination. It has to do with the fact that I believe that tongues as you speak of it is no longer a gift God is utilizing today. If you are speaking in a tongue, I do not believe it is God who is giving it to you. I believe it is one of those "gifts" that ended with the age of the apostles. ie when the canon of the scripture was finished. Solomon was granted wisdom, but we are all to seek wisdom from God, and it is a wisdom that comes as God the Holy Spirit reveals to us the truth of his word the Bible. And yes the twelve spoke in other languages. and many heard them in their own native language, but that is something entirely different than what you are speaking of, as I understand it. Are you speaking in german or french or italian or spanish, or russian..? No.... so what are you speaking...you are speakin in fulfillment to the prophecy of Isaiah as quoted in

1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

I cannot encourage you in seeking this sign. For it is not a blessing, it is a curse.

Deu 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:
Deu 28:46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
Deu 28:47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things;
Deu 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
Deu 28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
Deu 28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Consider these words carefully godsent..

blueheron32

germanJoy

02-07-2006, 06:39 AM

OneJoe

02-08-2006, 04:55 AM

How in the world can one claim that a gift formerly given by the Holy Spirit Himself to the body of Christ be seen and believed as A GIFT FROM THE DEVIL TODAY??????? Are we getting really NAIVE of the things of God or just wanting to believe only part of the bible that tickles our ears?

Can we not just stop and consider that ANYTHING God had done before He is able to and can keep on doing it today? And if one says He cannot, this person is LIMITING God Himself. Who can afford that???? :-(

Are we not the clay and HE IS OUR POTTER? Godsent, if you believe God can form you into receiving the gift of tonques, bless your heart. According to your faith, it will be done to you. For those who do not believe, it will be done unto them. They receive not because they believe not. But for us who ask, we will receive; for us who knock, the door is opened; for us who seek, we will find. Let the words of Christ be fulfilled in your own life, Godsent. I will pray for you, my brother. :-)
How in the world can one claim that a gift formerly given by the Holy Spirit Himself to the body of Christ be seen and believed as A GIFT FROM THE DEVIL TODAY??????? Are we getting really NAIVE of the things of God or just wanting to believe only part of the bible that tickles our ears?

Germanjoy, did you just mention something about only believing part of the bible that tickles our ears? hmm so there is something about someone not believeing tongues is real today that bothers you. So would it appear that someone is dismissing part of the bible to you? Do you see it this way? Well I believe the same applies to the women preachers or women teaching in church. If I remember correct you did not quite agree with me that women should not be teaching in the churches, but you do think they should be. It would appear there is a disregard for scripture there also. Or is it only what tickles our ears?...:-)

Onejoe

germanJoy

02-08-2006, 11:33 AM

Germanjoy, did you just mention something about only believing part of the bible that tickles our ears? hmm so there is something about someone not believeing tongues is real today that bothers you. So would it appear that someone is dismissing part of the bible to you? Do you see it this way? Well I believe the same applies to the women preachers or women teaching in church. If I remember correct you did not quite agree with me that women should not be teaching in the churches, but you do think they should be. It would appear there is a disregard for scripture there also. Or is it only what tickles our ears?...:-)

Onejoe
Rightly said Onejoe, everything in the bible has to be considered to establish a belief. There was no particular mention of tonques to cease at any time in the bible. You believe and teach it and by doing so, you become a candidate of adding to the Word of God. Your sole basis is your interpretation of the "perfect" to come (which connotes no writing of any books like the bible or letters from any Apostles) without specific explanation of what really the word "perfect" meant. Your interpretation that it meant to be the bible is a mere speculation and not the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You needed it to fit to your belief that tonques have ceased.

In comparison, the forbidding of women speaking in church as instructed by Paul at Corinth raises an argument (a very solid one) about a woman named Anna who spoke in the temple of God. Additional argument is the "daugthers" shall prophesy (to speak the Word of God in the body of Christ, the church) in the last days as written in the book of Acts. Another additional argument is the prophesy in Psalms that there will be a great company of women declaring the Word of God. And another argument is that there were women assisting Paul in the spreading of the gospel like Junias, a female apostle and the fact that Paul commended many women in their services to the Lord. And another argument is that Paul instructed women to teach others in his other letter. Looking at Jesus, He taught women God's Word. Women were the ones who declared the resurrection of Christ since men were in hiding. I can go on and still will find many more arguments. That leads to the conclusion that Paul's letter to the Corinthians forbidding women to speak was a ONE-TIME INSTRUCTION being situational and not to be used generally. The only exception for women to be forbidden to speak is IF her own husband forbids her. In this case, she has to submit as a wife which is clearly instructed by the Word of God. ;)

Redeemed777

02-08-2006, 04:12 PM

Godsent

02-08-2006, 08:33 PM

Hey, I really have compasion because i have been preying for those things.
Remember God will equip you with what you need and in due season. Ill be preying for you and be preying for me because I need the gift of tougues.
Just make sure that your reasons for these gifts are pure not to show off with.
love you
Amen redeemed that is so true and yes i will pray for u just do ur part in asking for the gift of tongues and in the same prayer u might wanna go ahead and accept it cuz it is a gift u neednt ask for it but once in true honesty of wanting it and for the right reasons. When this is done it will be given unto u and it will just take time to manifest focus on praising God a lot in singing in pray and praising his name when u feel like shouting it out. The gift of tongues will start out in an utterance or babblish sound and then it will change and get clearer and louder as u pratice it. Be patient all this will happen in Gods time and then u will start enjoying the closer intimacy u have with God and its like letting him pray the prayer for u since its in his language and its even a language the devil cant understand and he will do whatever he can to try to insure that u wont get the gift. Stand strong and trust in the Lord and when u feeling like the priases need to come out let them out. I will be praying for. Also do the same thing with the gift of interpretation cuz God wants u to have that gift also. 1 Corinthians 14:13-Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. So i would say ask for tongues first then accept the gift and proceed to pray for interpretation for when u ask for tongues then it will be given unto u and u can fullfill what God said in 1 Corinthians 14:13. I will be praying for u man and please pray for my preacher also when u pray for me and also a friend of mine they all want to manifest their gift/gifts. ttyl bye and GBU. :)

OneJoe

02-09-2006, 01:42 AM

Rightly said Onejoe, everything in the bible has to be considered to establish a belief. There was no particular mention of tonques to cease at any time in the bible. You believe and teach it and by doing so, you become a candidate of adding to the Word of God. Your sole basis is your interpretation of the "perfect" to come (which connotes no writing of any books like the bible or letters from any Apostles) without specific explanation of what really the word "perfect" meant. Your interpretation that it meant to be the bible is a mere speculation and not the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. You needed it to fit to your belief that tonques have ceased.

In comparison, the forbidding of women speaking in church as instructed by Paul at Corinth raises an argument (a very solid one) about a woman named Anna who spoke in the temple of God. Additional argument is the "daugthers" shall prophesy (to speak the Word of God in the body of Christ, the church) in the last days as written in the book of Acts. Another additional argument is the prophesy in Psalms that there will be a great company of women declaring the Word of God. And another argument is that there were women assisting Paul in the spreading of the gospel like Junias, a female apostle and the fact that Paul commended many women in their services to the Lord. And another argument is that Paul instructed women to teach others in his other letter. Looking at Jesus, He taught women God's Word. Women were the ones who declared the resurrection of Christ since men were in hiding. I can go on and still will find many more arguments. That leads to the conclusion that Paul's letter to the Corinthians forbidding women to speak was a ONE-TIME INSTRUCTION being situational and not to be used generally. The only exception for women to be forbidden to speak is IF her own husband forbids her. In this case, she has to submit as a wife which is clearly instructed by the Word of God. ;)
Germanjoy, if you don't believe the word of God is perfect thing then that shall be your stance come the last day. But if I remember correct, in the book of James there is the quote.."the pefect law of liberty". Seems strong enough to say God's word is perfect. Also, no I am not adding anything to God's word. I am interpreting the scripture as it is.

However, when it comes to saying that women are allowed to preach in the churches(buildings) then that is certainly adding to God's word. To say that something in the bible does not apply without the scripture clearly saying it would stop, then a person is running on assumption and taking away from God's word. As for your view on women teaching in the churches(buildings), it is only your interpretation that Anna spoke in the temple of God. You can not prove that. Also, the phrase the "daughters" shall prophecy does not mention in the buildings either. We can declare the word of God outside the churches also and I believe that is where this takes place for the women who are obeying God's word. Same thing goes with Psalms, they declare the word outside the church buildings, not inside, except of course those in direct violation of God's word. And yet again, those women who helped Paul did not do so in the church buildings, but rather just the oposite. You can name many cases, but you can not prove they taught in the temples, you only assume they did and by doing so make a grave error. So you don't agree with my view on tongues, yet you believe women can teach in churches when the bible clearly contradicts that. God's inspired word says for them to remain quiet, but that certainly isn't happening. So your view of Paul's letter being a "one-time instruction" certainly can not hold up. That is merely your view, but certainly not supported by God's word. The bible is the inspired word of God and God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

germanJoy

02-09-2006, 04:40 AM

However, when it comes to saying that women are allowed to preach in the churches(buildings) then that is certainly adding to God's word. To say that something in the bible does not apply without the scripture clearly saying it would stop, then a person is running on assumption and taking away from God's word. As for your view on women teaching in the churches(buildings), it is only your interpretation that Anna spoke in the temple of God. You can not prove that. Also, the phrase the "daughters" shall prophecy does not mention in the buildings either. We can declare the word of God outside the churches also and I believe that is where this takes place for the women who are obeying God's word. Same thing goes with Psalms, they declare the word outside the church buildings, not inside, except of course those in direct violation of God's word. And yet again, those women who helped Paul did not do so in the church buildings, but rather just the oposite. You can name many cases, but you can not prove they taught in the temples, you only assume they did and by doing so make a grave error. So you don't agree with my view on tongues, yet you believe women can teach in churches when the bible clearly contradicts that. God's inspired word says for them to remain quiet, but that certainly isn't happening. So your view of Paul's letter being a "one-time instruction" certainly can not hold up. That is merely your view, but certainly not supported by God's word. The bible is the inspired word of God and God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Can I not prove it, really? :-O Do you really believe that the Word of God is perfect? If so, then you also have to believe that a woman spoke in the building temple/church of God just as it is written.

22 And when the days of her apurification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the awomb shall be called holy to the Lord
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of aturtledoves, or two young pigeons.
25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy asalvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A alight bto lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is aset for the bfall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35 (Yea, a sword shall apierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
36 And there was one Anna, a aprophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with afastings and prayers night and day.
38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for aredemption in Jerusalem.
39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Anna was a prophetess who never left the temple building of God in Jerusalem. She spoke about Christ to all who were in the temple looking for the redemption in Jerusalem. Is this not proof enough for you that there was a woman SPEAKING IN THE TEMPLE BUILDING OF GOD? Or do you think temple and church buildings are different? Is not the temple in Jerusalem considered "holier" (as a building) than any church buildings in the world??? But wait a minute, how can a woman speak in a holy place but yet be forbidden to speak in a lesser holy place? :-p IT DOES NOT FIT!!! SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG!!!

Germanjoy, if you don't believe the word of God is perfect thing then that shall be your stance come the last day. But if I remember correct, in the book of James there is the quote.."the pefect law of liberty". Seems strong enough to say God's word is perfect. Also, no I am not adding anything to God's word. I am interpreting the scripture as it is.

What makes you think that the Apostles did not have the "PERFECT" yet when they themselves were the writers of the New Testament? Were the authors disqualified for something they themselves penned? Did they cease speaking in tonques after they wrote their letters? When John wrote the book of Revelation, it was very clear that he forbade adding and subtracting to the prophecy of that particular book, Revelation. He certainly neither intended nor referred to the gospels and the epistles when he said:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them....and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book Rev. 22:18-19

He said "the words of the prophecy of this book" and repeated "the words of the book of this prophecy". The book of this prophecy is meant to be the book of Revelation and it started in the beginning of Revelation:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place....Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Rev. 1:1-3

In conclusion, to claim that the bible is the "perfect" to come basing on Rev. 22:18-19 (no more addition) and thus all gifts have ceased is a FOOLISH interpretation without SCRIPTURAL support. I like what charlesj recently posted saying that the bible is like a "love letter" from the Lord to us. You can read the whole bible but everytime the word "perfect" appears, it SOLELY REFERS to God and His Word (Scriptures written since Moses), the coming of Jesus Christ and His body, the Bride of Christ.

But the one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man shall be blessed in what he does James 1:25

Since the Apostles and all early believers had also the WRITTEN SCRIPTURES passed to them but yet they were still waiting for the "PERFECT" to come, and EXACTLY THE SAME SCRIPTURES are passed unto us, we too are still waiting for that "PERFECT" to come which is no other than JESUS CHRIST AT HIS COMING! :) There and then you can say "THE PERFECT HAS COME"! There and then you can say "TONQUES HAVE CEASED"!

OneJoe

02-09-2006, 05:20 AM

Can I not prove it, really? :-O Do you really believe that the Word of God is perfect? If so, then you also have to believe that a woman spoke in the building temple/church of God just as it is written.

22 And when the days of her apurification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the awomb shall be called holy to the Lord
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of aturtledoves, or two young pigeons.
25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy asalvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A alight bto lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is aset for the bfall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35 (Yea, a sword shall apierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
36 And there was one Anna, a aprophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with afastings and prayers night and day.
38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for aredemption in Jerusalem.
39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

Anna was a prophetess who never left the temple building of God in Jerusalem. She spoke about Christ to all who were in the temple looking for the redemption in Jerusalem. Is this not proof enough for you that there was a woman SPEAKING IN THE TEMPLE BUILDING OF GOD? Or do you think temple and church buildings are different? Is not the temple in Jerusalem considered "holier" (as a building) than any church buildings in the world??? But wait a minute, how can a woman speak in a holy place but yet be forbidden to speak in a lesser holy place? :-p IT DOES NOT FIT!!! SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG!!!

What makes you think that the Apostles did not have the "PERFECT" yet when they themselves were the writers of the New Testament? Were the authors disqualified for something they themselves penned? Did they cease speaking in tonques after they wrote their letters? When John wrote the book of Revelation, it was very clear that he forbade adding and subtracting to the prophecy of that particular book, Revelation. He certainly neither intended nor referred to the gospels and the epistles when he said:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them....and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book Rev. 22:18-19

He said "the words of the prophecy of this book" and repeated "the words of the book of this prophecy". The book of this prophecy is meant to be the book of Revelation and it started in the beginning of Revelation:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place....Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Rev. 1:1-3

In conclusion, to claim that the bible is the "perfect" to come basing on Rev. 22:18-19 (no more addition) and thus all gifts have ceased is a FOOLISH interpretation without SCRIPTURAL support. I like what charlesj recently posted saying that the bible is like a "love letter" from the Lord to us. You can read the whole bible but everytime the word "perfect" appears, it SOLELY REFERS to God and His Word (Scriptures written since Moses), the coming of Jesus Christ and His body, the Bride of Christ.

But the one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man shall be blessed in what he does James 1:25

Since the Apostles and all early believers had also the WRITTEN SCRIPTURES passed to them but yet they were still waiting for the "PERFECT" to come, and EXACTLY THE SAME SCRIPTURES are passed unto us, we too are still waiting for that "PERFECT" to come which is no other than JESUS CHRIST AT HIS COMING! :) There and then you can say "THE PERFECT HAS COME"! There and then you can say "TONQUES HAVE CEASED"!
Germanjoy, you posted all that about Anna and yet it still does not say she taught anyone in the temple. It says she spoke of Christ, but not taught anything. The whole point here is in regard to women teaching in the temple, not just talking to others while their standing idle waiting on someone. So you view of this scripture is still what you want it to say, not what it actually says. Did I say a woman can not talk at all in the church building when there is no service, when others are just standing around after service? Do you have scriptures that prove a woman taught in the temple? According to the scriptures you posted, this would appear to be no more than a conversation on her behalf, not preaching in the temple and contradicting another part of God's word. As for the rest of your view on attempting to discredit God's word as anything less than perfect your wasting your time. Foolish would be to say that God's word is not pefect, since after all the bible says that Christ is the word of God. So you say that Christ is the pefect thing? Well Yes he is, but the bible clearly says that Christ is the word.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

germanJoy

02-09-2006, 09:32 AM

Germanjoy, you posted all that about Anna and yet it still does not say she taught anyone in the temple. It says she spoke of Christ, but not taught anything. The whole point here is in regard to women teaching in the temple, not just talking to others while their standing idle waiting on someone. So you view of this scripture is still what you want it to say, not what it actually says. Did I say a woman can not talk at all in the church building when there is no service, when others are just standing around after service? Do you have scriptures that prove a woman taught in the temple? According to the scriptures you posted, this would appear to be no more than a conversation on her behalf, not preaching in the temple and contradicting another part of God's word. As for the rest of your view on attempting to discredit God's word as anything less than perfect your wasting your time. Foolish would be to say that God's word is not pefect, since after all the bible says that Christ is the word of God. So you say that Christ is the pefect thing? Well Yes he is, but the bible clearly says that Christ is the word.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And where in the bible does it say that women are forbidden to teach in the church/temple? If you quote 1 Tim. 2:12 it says Paul does not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man (her husband and NOT THE CHURCH), but to remain quiet for it is Adam (the husband) who was first created, and then Eve (the wife).

The instruction of Paul was for women to keep silent in the churches for they are not permitted to speak because of the LAW. He used the law to justify the forbidding of "disorderly" women at Corinth. This is a clear contrast with Anna the prophetess who SPOKE in the temple of God. Was Anna violating the law? No, she was obeying the higher law, GOD'S holy call for her, to speak in the temple and be a prophetess.

Even though the law forbids women to speak (for they are to submit to men), God did not forbid Anna to speak in His temple. God even called more prophetess (who declare His Word) in the church. Paul forbids because of the law, God calls because of His word.

Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them as their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Since we are no longer under law but under grace. we are set free to be prophetess of God (in the last days His daughters shall prophesy). A prophetess is the highest call to be fulfilled. If we are qualified to fill the office of a prophet, why not teacher, pastor, evangelist, or apostle?. Surely, we may the bible did not say otherwise. We are serving a perfect law, the law of liberty. The law Paul used is a law that leads to sin and death. But we are serving a higher law, law of spirit and life...There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus for the LAW OF SPIRIT AND LIFE has set us free from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

I challenge you now to prove your claim that women are not allowed to teach in the church by giving me scriptures. What I guess you did is mixed the scriptures and claim that women are not to teach in the church when there was nothing written about it in the bible.

Tamara224

02-09-2006, 01:40 PM

Well said GermanJoy. Thank you for pointing these things out!!!!

Tamara224

02-09-2006, 01:45 PM

Rylee

02-09-2006, 05:21 PM

Godsent: I know that there have been many replies on this board, and I'm going to try to stray from that and just tell you how I feel: Remember that God will have His way. Rather than praying for you to receive a certain gift, I will pray that God will have His perfect will with your life, regardless of what He plans to do with you, which is how it should be. :)

Redeemed777

02-09-2006, 06:12 PM

Thats Good Amen
Be preying for me rylee you have already become a semi-role model and i will be preying for you
P.S the ultimate role model is Jesus
love

Rylee

02-09-2006, 07:07 PM

Of course I will keep you in my prayers Redeemed. I hope that by meeting through this site we are able to learn together, answer each others questions, and grow in our faith as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Godsent

02-09-2006, 08:12 PM

I asked for the gift of tongues and interpreation also and ive accepted those gifts will someone please pray that i will manifest these gifts as i should and use them to be more intimate with God and striving to be more like him everyday and that all of it be used for his will and his glory and that it will be God honoring. Please just pray for me cuz neither of these gifts is to be taken lightly and the devil will toss everything he has at me cuz its a language he cant understand...its Gods language and he doesnt want me to have it.
Thanks to everyone that are praying...please continue praying cuz i can really feel the devil not wanting me to manifest the gifts of tongues and interpretations. He is trying to take it from the top and destroying what i take great pride in which is my happyness in spite of whatever happens to me. I dont know if yall have ever heard of Micheal Combs or not but used to all of his songs would trigger something inside me and make me want to jump for joy well the excitement still runs through me but even when im alone in my car for some reason i get scared to shout out praises to him...i feel the devil is really trying to steal that joy from me and please just share ur thoughts on this and keep praying please...:) Also germanjoy i see u have a lot of thoughts and bible verses to posts here on ccf and i realize u are really strong in Christ and i was wondering if u had yahoo if u would add me at jkgameboy@yahoo.com :)

OneJoe

02-10-2006, 01:33 AM

And where in the bible does it say that women are forbidden to teach in the church/temple? If you quote 1 Tim. 2:12 it says Paul does not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man (her husband and NOT THE CHURCH), but to remain quiet for it is Adam (the husband) who was first created, and then Eve (the wife).

The instruction of Paul was for women to keep silent in the churches for they are not permitted to speak because of the LAW. He used the law to justify the forbidding of "disorderly" women at Corinth. This is a clear contrast with Anna the prophetess who SPOKE in the temple of God. Was Anna violating the law? No, she was obeying the higher law, GOD'S holy call for her, to speak in the temple and be a prophetess.

Even though the law forbids women to speak (for they are to submit to men), God did not forbid Anna to speak in His temple. God even called more prophetess (who declare His Word) in the church. Paul forbids because of the law, God calls because of His word.

Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them as their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Since we are no longer under law but under grace. we are set free to be prophetess of God (in the last days His daughters shall prophesy). A prophetess is the highest call to be fulfilled. If we are qualified to fill the office of a prophet, why not teacher, pastor, evangelist, or apostle?. Surely, we may the bible did not say otherwise. We are serving a perfect law, the law of liberty. The law Paul used is a law that leads to sin and death. But we are serving a higher law, law of spirit and life...There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus for the LAW OF SPIRIT AND LIFE has set us free from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

I challenge you now to prove your claim that women are not allowed to teach in the church by giving me scriptures. What I guess you did is mixed the scriptures and claim that women are not to teach in the church when there was nothing written about it in the bible.
Germanjoy, I could post 1 Corinthians about women not speaking in the church, but you would yet again twist that into some fairy tale that God only meant that as a one time commandment. Oh sure, God really commanded the women of one church to not speak in church, give me a break. You have absolutely no proof that God meant that as a one time deal. That is a dangerous assumption.

If we are qualified to fill the office of a prophet, why not teacher, pastor, evangelist, or apostle?

To be called to be a Pastor would mean to lead a congregation, not something spoken of in the bible unless you twist a few scriptures to make it appear that way. The women in the bible taught outside the churhches, helped the apostles, etc. but there is no proof that Anna taught. She spoke (not taught) in the temple area about Christ, whom everyone else was waiting on.

The law Paul used is a law that leads to sin and death.

hmm, you might want to explain this comment because I'm not sure what you mean off hand. Paul was lead by God, inspired by God, etc...yet you say the law he used leads to death.

OneJoe

02-10-2006, 01:36 AM

Um....Onejoe....I'd just like to point out that they didn't have 'Church Buildings' in the New Testament churches. So, to say that Paul, or anyone, was distinguishing between what we do inside and outside of 'church buildings' is really really really adding stuff to the Bible that isn't there.
Tamara, they did have temples, synagogues, etc... The modern day church buildings are the representation of the Old Testament Synagogues or temples, "holy places"

germanJoy

02-10-2006, 03:39 AM

I could post 1 Corinthians about women not speaking in the church, but you would yet again twist that into some fairy tale that God only meant that as a one time commandment. Oh sure, God really commanded the women of one church to not speak in church, give me a break. You have absolutely no proof that God meant that as a one time deal. That is a dangerous assumption.
OK, I'll give you a break as requested. Now, take your breath and see what you were saying: "God commanded a woman not to speak in all churches." (not found in the bible)
The bible says: "God commanded Anna (a woman) to speak in His temple".

So, who really needs a break here? :-p

Point is PAUL (not God) commanded the women not to speak in the church just as the "law" says. Which law? the jewish law that forbids women to take authority over men. That was the general law. Thus, no woman was ever serving as priests in the Old Covenant. But what does the New Covenant say? All believing "women" are priests of God.

Jesus came to fulfill the law (although He changed many things in the jewish law like Sabbath observance, not stoning the adulteresses, teaching women- while Paul said women should be taught by their husbands at home OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TAUGHT WOMEN. I guess Paul missed something coz after all he had not spent time with Jesus unlike the other Apostles). In the same manner, Anna fulfilled the law (at first glance one thinks she violated the law) because she was called by God to speak in His temple.

There is no dangerous assumption except for your doctrine that women are absolutely forbidden to speak in the church.

To be called to be a Pastor would mean to lead a congregation, not something spoken of in the bible unless you twist a few scriptures to make it appear that way. The women in the bible taught outside the churhches, helped the apostles, etc. but there is no proof that Anna taught. She spoke (not taught) in the temple area about Christ, whom everyone else was waiting on.

Come on give me a break again, where in the bible does it say that women were teaching OUTSIDE THE CHURCH? Hey, Anna was speaking INSIDE the temple DAY AND NIGHT, she even did not cease speaking with fasting and prayer. Don't tell me that by declaring the coming of Christ, she never taught anyone of anything or that no one ever ask her what she was speaking about. For instance, if I speak a Word of God here which is to HAPPEN SOON as a prophetess, I will definitely receive many feedbacks and will be questioned about it. And I will definitely end up TEACHING THEM of what I meant!!!! And so with Anna.

hmm, you might want to explain this comment because I'm not sure what you mean off hand. Paul was lead by God, inspired by God, etc...yet you say the law he used leads to death.

Come on Onejoe, Paul is not God. Don't treat him like one. He too commited a mistake like you and me (He robbed other churches) and He too received forgiveness (remember the torn in his flesh?).

I (Paul) robbed other churches, taking wages from them to serve you. 2 Cor. 11:8

Do you know the consequences of Paul's letter to the Corinthians (forbidding women to speak) today at this particular place in Greece? There is an island near Tessaloniki (Thessalonica) where NO WOMAN is ever allowed to enter; anyone violating is PUNISHED. I forgot the name of this place (I can look it up if you wish); I was personally in Tessaloniki and was taught about it. Did Paul mean it that way? NO, of course NOT. MEN ("macho" men) took advantage of his letter to DISCRIMINATE women and by doing so, they hindered the HOLY CALL of God for them. The only thing what Paul wanted was to bring order AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME AND AT THAT PARTICULAR PLACE to the "greek women" (newly converts who were brought up as leaders with a very strong influence in the society) trying "to lead" the church at Corinth while teaching their husbands there. And since there is a jewish law that women are to subject themselves to men, Paul implemented it, no more no less!. Were there any other instances in any letters or epistles where any Apostles (or even Paul himself) forbade women to speak in the church? NONE.

The Old Covenant leads to the law of sin and death, for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and that no flesh will be justified in God's sight by the works of the Law ... the New Covenant establishes a Law of faith , the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe for there is no distinction (male or female; jews or gentiles). Therefore we are servants of a new covenant, not of the letter (any written law that forbids anyone to obey God), but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life (2Cor. 3:6). Thus, the New Covenant leads to the law of Spirit and life.

All the Apostles made a written instruction which Old Covenant laws are essentials to be kept and observed under New Covenant and mind you there was no forbidding of women to speak in the church. :-)

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication: if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell Acts 15:28-29

Do you know that you are putting a greater burden to the body of Christ by adding an additional law forbidding women to the already established "essentials" given by all Apostles and elders IN ONE MIND with the WHOLE CHURCH? (see from verse 22 down) Again, that would be adding to the Word of God.

There is another challenge I will give you: Tell me a PROPHET in the bible who never taught anyone of anything. All prophets of God are TEACHERS.

...And your sons and your DAUGHTERS shall prophesy... Acts 2:17

blueheron32

02-10-2006, 04:56 PM

"How in the world can one claim that a gift formerly given by the Holy Spirit Himself to the body of Christ be seen and believed as A GIFT FROM THE DEVIL TODAY??????? Are we getting really NAIVE of the things of God or just wanting to believe only part of the bible that tickles our ears?

Can we not just stop and consider that ANYTHING God had done before He is able to and can keep on doing it today? And if one says He cannot, this person is LIMITING God Himself. Who can afford that???? "

germanjoy...

I did not say that a gift once given by God was now a gift from satan....those were your words....I did not say that...:-) The gift of "new tongues" was and is forever a gift from the Holy Spirit. The supernatural manifestation of that gift is prominently displayed in the new testament, both in the book of acts and in 1 Corinthians. But that miraculous display, once seen, should not obscure the new tongue that is really in view as we think of salvation. Every true believer receives a new tongue, and speaks with that new tongue. While before he becomes saved, his tongue is a fountain producing cursing, and blasphemy, lies, and false doctrines. James says in refering to that tongue, it is a fire, a world of iniquity, so is the tongue that it defileth the whole world and setteth on fire the course of nature.

But when a person is born again, that tongue is transformed, or made new...now, it brings forth the praises of its saviour. It preaches the gospel to every creature..it lifts its voice in prayer, and speaks truth in love, edifying and exhorting, blessing, singing praise to his maker while it has breath. That is the new tongue given by the Holy Spirit germanjoy. That is the miracle we should be celebrating...

But it is a tongue in our day that is hardly talked about....rather people want to, (speaking of itching ears) hear some kind of supernatural utterance that is "stammering lips, and another tongue". There is a verse of course that says tongues will cease....Im sure you are aware of that...

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

That verse says that tongues shall cease, and taken in the context of the passage it is written in, 1 Cor 12-14, it is speaking of the supernatural expression of tongues. The problem with this verse is that it does not say when they will cease. And as I have said before, when the canon of scripture was complete, there was no more need for them and they came to an end along with other supernatural miracles.. But the transforming nature of salvation did not cease...Gods people still speak with new tongues..speaking the Gospel of the Grace of Jesus Christ.

The modern day gift of tongues is not the same as that which we see in Acts german joy....it is not a gift, it is a curse....it is a judgment from God, search the scriptures and you will see....as the Lord gives you eyes according to his mercy...

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

blueheron32

02-10-2006, 06:47 PM

Godsent

02-10-2006, 07:21 PM

"The gift of tongues will start out in an utterance or babblish sound and then it will change and get clearer and louder as u pratice it."

Hi godsent.... is that how it starts out??? A "babblish" sound??? :-) Do you mean, like at the tower of Babel...??? babylonish...?? I thought that was the hand of God working against man...to defeat man....:-)

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

sounds like judgement to me..not a blessing..:(

blueheron32
Blue...God offered rest to the people and the ability to administer rest to others and in verses 9 and 10 the religious leaders decided to complain that God was speaking in tongues and in babblish talk so he simply told them since u dont want to listen to me i will send u a foreign invader(assryia)into ur midst. They had the chance to do what they should and they were punished cuz they didnt do so...and these people did not speak in tongues in this case thats why they couldnt understand what was being said.

Deaira

02-10-2006, 10:06 PM

germanJoy

02-11-2006, 05:20 AM

I did not say that a gift once given by God was now a gift from satan....those were your words....I did not say that...:-)

The modern day gift of tongues is not the same as that which we see in Acts german joy....it is not a gift, it is a curse....it is a judgment from God, search the scriptures and you will see....as the Lord gives you eyes according to his mercy...

My blue friend, The quotations you made above are somehow inconsistent. A curse is something evil, God judges evil. So what really is the difference? Besides, I have just interpreted the opinions you have previously made regarding your position on the "new tonques" being spoken today in the church which you see as of the devil. Those were your own words...unless you have changed your mind.... then praise God for the answered prayer. :-)

The gift of "new tongues" was and is forever a gift from the Holy Spirit. The supernatural manifestation of that gift is prominently displayed in the new testament, both in the book of acts and in 1 Corinthians. But that miraculous display, once seen, should not obscure the new tongue that is really in view as we think of salvation. Every true believer receives a new tongue, and speaks with that new tongue. While before he becomes saved, his tongue is a fountain producing cursing, and blasphemy, lies, and false doctrines. James says in refering to that tongue, it is a fire, a world of iniquity, so is the tongue that it defileth the whole world and setteth on fire the course of nature. But when a person is born again, that tongue is transformed, or made new...now, it brings forth the praises of its saviour. It preaches the gospel to every creature..it lifts its voice in prayer, and speaks truth in love, edifying and exhorting, blessing, singing praise to his maker while it has breath. That is the new tongue given by the Holy Spirit germanjoy. That is the miracle we should be celebrating...

From this statement, you are telling us that there are two (2) kinds of "new tonques". One is "supernatural tonque" and the other is "born-again tonque". You say that the supernatural tonque has ceased while the born-again tonque continues. You quoted 1 Cor. 13:8 to support your stand that the supernatural tonque has ceased. Of course I am aware of this verse and also the following verse. If the "perfect" comes, the partial (gifts) will be done away. Are you already perfect? Has Jesus already returned?

That verse says that tongues shall cease, and taken in the context of the passage it is written in, 1 Cor 12-14, it is speaking of the supernatural expression of tongues. The problem with this verse is that it does not say when they will cease. And as I have said before, when the canon of scripture was complete, there was no more need for them and they came to an end along with other supernatural miracles.. But the transforming nature of salvation did not cease...
To say that the "perfect" has come when the canon of scripture was complete is like walking on a very thin layer of ice. It's dangerous and unscriptural. Nowhere in the bible was it ever written that "a coming book is the perfect". By the way, the Jehovah Witnesses have exactly the same belief. Do you want to have anything to do with that spirit? I, not... I want to remain scriptural.

Gods people still speak with new tongues..speaking the Gospel of the Grace of Jesus Christ.
Speaking the gospel of Jesus Christ is prophecy blue and not new tonques. Paul made instruction to earnestly desire "prophecy" (speaking the Word of God in a language one understands) but not forbid tonques (supernatural speaking in other languages which no one understands).

These verses especially fits (written and addressed to) the UNBELIEVING hearts and minds. Even if the Scripture is to be taken WHOLLY about the speaking of tonques as manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit, but yet they refuse to hear and believe because they only take one part and leave the others. Worst of all, they make an additional knowledge of something not written to fit their doctrine based on unbelief.
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Can we not just simply take the whole Scriptures (its whole events to be of God) and act by faith that the same blessings be poured upon us today also? Instead of making some changes and ignoring how really God worked in the past, let us start to believe with all our hearts that:

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He never changes. Amen!

Godsent

02-11-2006, 08:17 PM

AMEN Godsent

what's your first name so i may throw your name up in prayer for you in these areas. And YES the devil definitly be on his job to set you up .. be aware and stay prayful, stay in God's word as much as possible, pray, fast, and defineitly consecrate yourself.. Deaira
Deaira...my first name is joey but i go by my middle name which is kevin. I know sometimes is seems we have to get very specific in prayer for the prayer to be answered so im going to give out my full name right now just for that purpose Joey (Kevin) Mccaskill

Robert

02-12-2006, 02:04 PM

Hello germanJoy,

I see you and blue have this “thing” going on at different times and I must say it’s wonderfully entertaining, so don’t stop on my account. However I have a question or two that I would like you to address if you would be so kind, as I’m getting to the point where I’m becoming confused. This new format seems (to me at least) more difficult to follow in sequence of post’s by individuals than the old one, anyway to the questions……

You said somewhere, …“Is the gift of the Holy Spirit good? Is the speaking in tongues good? OH! YES for the bible says so. Then, why doubt the heavenly Father's ability to give us the Holy Spirit's gift and not the evil spirit? Is our relationship with the Father based on the works of Jesus Christ or on the works of the devil?”

On the face of it, I don’t disagree with that statement at all. But what tongues do you mean ? … By the way isn’t it strange that with all the different Bible translations, people still persist on using the word tongue, instead of languages, which we should all realise is the correct translation of tongues and far less confusing…. So back to my questions, are you referring to the ability to speak different languages or the unintelligible utterances used in many churches today ?

Somewhere else, you then use one of the many quotes from blue:… Quote. “Gods people still speak with new tongues.. speaking the Gospel of the Grace of Jesus Christ“.

Followed by your remarks to blue on that quote:…Quote. “Speaking the gospel of Jesus Christ is prophecy blue and not new tongues. Paul made instruction to earnestly desire "prophecy" (speaking the Word of God in a language one understands) but not forbid tongues (supernatural speaking in other languages which no one understands).”

There is only one reference to new tongues (language) in the Bible and that is:…..
Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”…“which is prophecy…the great commission)…. I’d say you could both split the difference on that one. But the bit that really got my attention was….Quote “ but not forbid tongues (supernatural speaking in other languages which no one understands).” Question:… if Paul did not forbid it, pray tell me where did he encourage such a thing ? By that I mean, “specifically” this speaking in “utterances”…. you call it a language no one understands.
You rightly said that:….Quote “Paul made instruction to earnestly desire "prophecy" (speaking the Word of God in a language one understands)”…. Paul did earnestly desire “prophecy,” in fact he wrote an entire chapter on it. Question is,… what happened to the chapter on tongues, (“specifically” as in the language no one understands? ) … It seems to be missing ?.. Paul was meticulous to a fault, he explained every little detail. Often twice or more and yet he doesn’t explain this phenomena even once, I wonder why ?… When I speak of explanation I am not referring to mans interpretation, I mean a Biblical explanation …Given by Paul…. “specifically” on utterances no one understands.
Could it be that we have miss understood what he was saying from the beginning ? Or could it be that a lie spoken often enough has become the supposed truth ?

Tongues is used thirty four times in the entire Bible, twenty of which refer to a gift from God, there are only three examples of anyone actually speaking in another language, all of which did not require an “interpreter.”… Why ?… Because it was the same tongue as heard on Pentecost day
Acts 2:7-11. Where they spoke of: ….“the wonderful works of God”
Acts 10:46. Where they heard: …. “God magnified”
Acts 19:6. Where they: …. “prophesied”

In today’s churches I have heard it said that: Oh!.. but we have an interpreter, who explains what these strange utterances are,…. and that’s the point !!! If these tongues were as they claim, a gift from The Holy Spirit, the same as that on Pentecost, they wouldn’t need an “interpreter” would they, for ALL would understand in their own language.
When Paul speaks of the need for an interpreter, he is speaking in reference to someone preaching / teaching in a foreign land / country, the necessity for this is obvious if the one in question doesn’t speak the language.

I Cor14:5 “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.”
I Cor 14:6 “Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”
I Cor14:9 “So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.”

By the way I don’t agree with everything blue says either for instance, speaking of tongues, blue says: “when the canon of scripture was complete, there was no more need for them and they came to an end along with other supernatural miracles”….Now they were certainly temporarily suspended, but were not to cease altogether. For if we read Mark 13:11 we will see that in these end times they will be heard again. The same tongue as heard on Pentecost day. The cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6;
Mark 13:11 “But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit).”
Another topic for another day.
Take care germanJoy…. God bless.

Robert.

Rylee

02-12-2006, 02:30 PM

This new format seems (to me at least) more difficult to follow in sequence of post’s by individuals than the old one

This isn't really answering your question, but I thought that this might help you out...
1) Above the posts there is a blue strip with different links (i.e. User CP, Forum Help, Forum Rules, etc. The very first one on the left says User CP. Click that.
2)Now you are at your user control panel. If you look all the way to the left, you will see a blue column with several options which edit different settings pertaining to your account. The fourth link down is "Edit Options"... click that.
3)In Edit Options, the first box you should see says "Login and Privacy", the next one should say "Message and Notification", and the one after that should say "Thread Display Options". Stay there.
4) Thread Display Options gives you four choices: the second option should say "Thread Display Mode". In your case, it should be threaded. You can either pick "Linear - oldest to newest", "Linear, newest to oldest", "Threaded" (which is where you are), or "Hybrid". This setting changes the way that you see the messages. This will enable you to see the posts either new to old, or old to new. Hybrid has the "threaded" posts at the top, that way you can see how the post has progressed, but underneath it has the linear old-to-new thread. The linear ones are self-explained; you can either choose new to old and old to new, and you already know that the threaded ones look like. Hope this helps.

Godsent

02-12-2006, 03:32 PM

I joined people at the altar today and i asked God to rid me of any sin or unforgiveness that might be stopping my manifestation of tongues and intrepretations and to eliminate any barriers that are blocking me from manifesting it and that i will really focus on using it for the right reasons. The devil will really get up his lies and deciet to stop me from manifesting tongues...this is just an update to what is going on in my life in that area just keep praying for me please.

blueheron32

02-12-2006, 06:46 PM

Godsent

02-12-2006, 06:56 PM

God sent...:-)

I will continue to pray that God, will keep you from this terrible thing you are seeking for...May God protect and keep you....

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

blueheron32
blue...i dont think God is going to listen to on that one cuz u know what the bible says about trying to get a response from God without asking for forgiveness for a sin. Take a look 1 Corinthians 14:39-Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Blue please really study up on tongues and pray for understanding in the verses u read i know u wont recieve tongues because u dont believe in it but maybe u will get a clearer understanding of what it is and what God has to say about it... :)

blueheron32

02-12-2006, 07:46 PM

Godsent

02-12-2006, 07:54 PM

godsent...

I DO believe in tongues....I believe in a transformed tongue....we sing a new song..preach a new message... I believe that if any man be in christ he is a new creature old things are passed away, behold ALL things are become new....that includes our tongue... A picture of that is seen as Jesus was healing, and on occasion he healed a man who was dumb...unable to speak..Giving speach to that man..was what he does in salvation...where before the tongue was spiritually dead and unable to speak the things of God...after a person becomes saved....he is now able to share the glad tidings and good news of the God who saves and restores one to a relationship of peace with his Father in heaven....Is this so difficult to see....??

blue
blue i see what u mean...what im trying to say is u salvation is given and God has more to offer he wants to help u pray and use the way he speaks to make u more intimate with him yes its true that when ur saved u recieve a new tongue and i think that "the gift of tongues" is merely a way of saying i want to update the new tongue given me and let God pray for me especially in situtations i dont know how to pray...do u understand what i mean?

germanJoy

02-13-2006, 05:46 AM

You said somewhere, …“Is the gift of the Holy Spirit good? Is the speaking in tongues good? OH! YES for the bible says so. Then, why doubt the heavenly Father's ability to give us the Holy Spirit's gift and not the evil spirit? Is our relationship with the Father based on the works of Jesus Christ or on the works of the devil?”
On the face of it, I don’t disagree with that statement at all. But what tongues do you mean ? … By the way isn’t it strange that with all the different Bible translations, people still persist on using the word tongue, instead of languages, which we should all realise is the correct translation of tongues and far less confusing…. So back to my questions, are you referring to the ability to speak different languages or the unintelligible utterances used in many churches today ?

The word "tonques" in the bible has four (4) different definitions:

1. Physical tonques - Psalms 78:36 Nevertheless they flattered him with their mouth, and they lied to him with their tongues.

2. Tonques meant as "languages" of the nation and people - Gen. 10:20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tonques, by their lands, by their nations. Rev. 10:11 And they said to me, "You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tonques and kings.

The other two (2) meanings describe the speaking with "tonques" as the gift of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament which both needs a gifted interpreter.

3. Tonques of men (earthly foreign language tonques) wherein the language being spoken is foreign to the speaker but may or may not be foreign to the listeners. (If a foreigner hears that the tonques spoken is in his own language, then he should of course interpret the tonques. But if no foreigner or learned interpreter is present, then the one who has the "heavenly" gift of interpretation should interpret. If there is still none, then no tonques should be spoken.) Examples of these instances are in Acts. 2:4

4. Tonques of angels (heavenly tonques) wherein the language being spoken is foreign to both speaker and listeners. In this case, the one who is heavenly gifted should interpret. 1 Cor. 13:1 If I speak with the tonques of men and of angels.....

Question:… if Paul did not forbid it, pray tell me where did he encourage such a thing ? By that I mean, “specifically” this speaking in “utterances”…. you call it a language no one understands.

Paul had not just encouraged but also instructed tonques and wished that all speak in tonques.

1 Cor. 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tonques, but even more that you would prophesy....
1 Cor. 14:26 ...When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tonque, has an interpretation....

Paul did earnestly desire “prophecy,” in fact he wrote an entire chapter on it. Question is,… what happened to the chapter on tongues, (“specifically” as in the language no one understands? ) … It seems to be missing ?.. Paul was meticulous to a fault, he explained every little detail. Often twice or more and yet he doesn’t explain this phenomena even once, I wonder why ?… When I speak of explanation I am not referring to mans interpretation, I mean a Biblical explanation …Given by Paul…. “specifically” on utterances no one understands. Could it be that we have miss understood what he was saying from the beginning ? Or could it be that a lie spoken often enough has become the supposed truth ?

Paul never left out tonques as essential gift of the Holy Spirit even though he clearly encouraged more prophecies. There was nothing missing on Paul's explanation about tonques. It is a heavenly/spiritual language which one can use in prayer, in worship songs to God for one's self-edification.

For one who speaks in a tonque does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Cor. 14:2

For if I pray in a tonque, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I shall pray with the spirit (praying in tonques)and I shall pray with the mind also; I shall sing with the spirit (singing in tonques)and I shall sing with the mind also. 1 Cor. 14:13-15

During our private time of prayer and intercession, there are times we don't know what to pray but our spirit groans and we would utter prayer in tonques. And as we do it, it is the Holy Spirit interceding for someone whom the Lord wants us to pray for (which we don't have any idea what the person needs). Afterwards we would just get to know that this particular person really needed a prayer.

And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weaknesses; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words and He who searches the heart knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:26-27

Tongues is used thirty four times in the entire Bible, twenty of which refer to a gift from God, there are only three examples of anyone actually speaking in another language, all of which did not require an “interpreter.”… Why ?… Because it was the same tongue as heard on Pentecost day
Acts 2:7-11. Where they spoke of: ….“the wonderful works of God”
Acts 10:46. Where they heard: …. “God magnified”
Acts 19:6. Where they: …. “prophesied”

In the book of Acts, ALL BELIEVERS received the gift of the Holy Spirit; some spoke "with" tonques (heavenly Acts 10:46 and 19:6) and some "with other" tonques (earthly foreign tonque Acts 2:7-11). In all cases, interpretations were made by themselves (the recipients) as they spoke of the wonderful works of God, as they magnified God, and as they prophesied.

In today’s churches I have heard it said that: Oh!.. but we have an interpreter, who explains what these strange utterances are,…. and that’s the point !!! If these tongues were as they claim, a gift from The Holy Spirit, the same as that on Pentecost, they wouldn’t need an “interpreter” would they, for ALL would understand in their own language.

I do not copy what you meant here. But if you ask what the proper way is, the bible tells us to pray that one may be able to interpret himself (or pray for an intepreter) before he speaks in a tonque in the church. 1 Cor. 14:13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tonque pray that he may interpret.

When Paul speaks of the need for an interpreter, he is speaking in reference to someone preaching / teaching in a foreign land / country, the necessity for this is obvious if the one in question doesn’t speak the language.

That statement is presumptuous. Interpretation is a GIFT (a manifestation of the Spirit), it is not something you learn in any school of languages like today. 1 Cor. 12:7-10 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom..... the word of knowledge...to another faith... to another gifts of healing...effecting of miracles...to another prophecy...distinguishing of spirits...various kinds of tonques...and to another the interpretation of tonques.

Jesus own's words confirmed that the believers shall speak with "new" tonques in His name. "New tonques" connotes tonques that have not uttered before hence called "new" which sounds spiritual, heavenly, supernatural. A logical mind will definitely have problems to deal with this important manifestation of the Spirit.

Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”…“

God bless you too, Robert. :)

Robert

02-13-2006, 08:18 PM

Hello Rylee.

Thank you for the information, I’ll keep on trying until I get it right.
Thanks again.

Robert.

Robert

02-13-2006, 08:22 PM

Godsent

02-13-2006, 09:22 PM

Should i fast and focus on praying about manifestitation of tongues and intrepretation? I feel God is calling me to do so...what do yall think?

Rylee

02-13-2006, 09:26 PM

Godsent

02-13-2006, 10:31 PM

Before you do anything, you need to make sure that God is the one who's talking to you. Sometimes it can seem like God is talking to you when it is, in fact, the devil. Just be careful and pray for God to lead you in the right direction! Be careful about the tongues, and just keep in mind what everybody has already told you, please!!! I don't know what else to tell you, as this is all between you and God.

P.S. Please read THIS (http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/speaking.htm)
Rylee...i read ur thing that u told me to read and i know the devil will do whatever he can to insure that i dont manifest my spiritual gifts...this is one of his weapons that i will read but not heed to i answer to a higher power.

Just be careful and pray for God to lead you in the right direction! Be careful about the tongues, and just keep in mind what everybody has already told you, please!!!

I am praying that he will have his will and way in the situation and yes im trying to remember all that is told me and store it in long-term memory.

I don't know what else to tell you, as this is all between you and God.
what u said is prefectly fine it is what u feel God is telling u to say and ur right it is all between me and God...and all i feel that it is necessary for me to learn all i can about tongues so that i can be assured i want it for the right reasons and that im throughly well informed of the info that is contained in that area. ttyl bye and GBU. :)

jmj81376

02-13-2006, 11:01 PM

1 Corinthians 14:26-28
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

sisterinJesus

02-14-2006, 12:45 AM

Point is PAUL (not God) commanded the women not to speak in the church just as the "law" says.

while Paul said women should be taught by their husbands at home OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TAUGHT WOMEN. I guess Paul missed something coz after all he had not spent time with Jesus unlike the other Apostles).

Come on Onejoe, Paul is not God. Don't treat him like one.

Germanjoy, these statements you made are worrisome to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but it looks to me as if you believe that what Paul said were his words (since you said "Paul (not God)" ) and are NOT the inspired words of God. I don't want to get into a discussion about women and what they should and should not do in church. That is not my point here.

Don't you believe that every word in the Bible is the inspired Word of God?
God's word says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness. 2 Tim 3:16

If you do believe the scripture is inspired by God, then it was God speaking through Paul, not just Paul telling the people what was on his mind.

germanJoy

02-14-2006, 03:26 AM

Hello germanJoy,

Thank you for the reply,… your post has been an enlightening revelation to me. I have never read before that there were four different definitions for the word “tongue.”
We must write to the publishers of Dr Strong’s Concordance immediately and inform them of this new addition……. UNBELIEVABLE !!…No wonder Paul found it necessary to include verse 21 in his 1 Cor 14. chapter, referring back to Isaiah 28. But of course that would probably be twisted to suit ones purpose as well…so sad.
I have never seen scripture so blatantly perverted or miss understood. I will praise the Lord God daily that I don’t speak in tongues that mock the very Spirit of God.

Robert.
Hi Robert,

Glory be to our Almighty God alone! What I have written yesterday was solely the works of the Holy Spirit (I was a mere vessel). Amazingly, I myself didn't also know anything about these definitions and knowledge before. It was totally a "new" revelation for me as well. Isn't our God marvelous?. :)

Actually, when I wrote the first lines I didn't have the slightest idea how to respond to your post. Suddenly, the Holy Spirit lead me to all the bible verses related to the issue.

You are completely right that Paul needed to requote Isaiah's prophecy about tonques to confirm:

a) that there are two (2) kinds of tonques God will manifest, namely: the "strange tonques" which is the heavenly/spiritual/tonques of angels and the "lips of strangers" which is the "foreign earthly tonque/tonques of men"; and

b)that the Spirit of God authors and gives the "new tonques" to make the unbelievers see that HE IS indeed ALMIGHTY. But yet, unbelievers remain unbelieving. They will still reject the signs and will still continue to harden their hearts. :-(

In the Law it is written: "By men of strange tonques and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me," says the Lord. So then tonques are for a sign, not to those who believe, but to unbelievers..... 1 Cor. 14:21-22

Thank you also Robert for your teachable heart. God bless you, brother.

germanJoy

germanJoy

02-14-2006, 04:11 AM

Should i fast and focus on praying about manifestitation of tongues and intrepretation? I feel God is calling me to do so...what do yall think?
Hi Godsent, praise God for your desire to seek for spiritual gifts knowing that everything good and perfect is from above.

First and foremost, I don't know anyone in the bible who had to fast to receive the gift of tonques. I don't think it would be wise to do so. But of course, if the Lord tells you to do so, then go ahead (after all fasting should be between you and God). However, keep in mind that fasting changes us (not God). If we fast, we deny our flesh and elevate our spirit, we put Christ's words into action (that men liveth not by bread alone but by God's Word), we bring ourselves into a closer fellowship with God, we make our "spiritual antenna" active, etc.

Secondly, if I may, I advise you to first ask your home physician whether you are physically fit (since you mentioned your being too skinny) to go for a fast.

Thirdly, allow me to relate my own experience of receiving the gift. Like you, I also went to the altar "hoping and praying" for it but to no avail. Despite of my ardent desires, nothing transpired. I decided to leave it into the hands of God. I felt there was no need to force a gift, it should be freely received and freely given. Otherwise, it would no longer be a gift.... you know what I mean? Ok, then one night (still with this fervent prayer in my heart) as I was lying in bed... I sensed within me an immense desire to praise and to thank God of His greatness in my life.. As I did it, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit fell upon me and I began to speak in tonques... then I cried and continued to praise Him.

May our great and mighty God grant your desire to walk in the fellowship and the power of the Holy Spirit and may His perfect will be fully manifested in your hidden life in Christ.

In the glorious powerful Name of Jesus, I pray.... Amen!

blueheron32

02-15-2006, 11:07 AM

Exactly sisterinjesus.....many people for some reason treat Paul as if he is a special case in the Bible. On the one hand they will use his writings if they prove their point, but on the other hand if he contradicts them, all of the sudden his words are not applicable for today, or are simply "his" words and not the actual words God would have had him say. In the same way, some will say the words that Jesus said, are somehow more authoratative than the rest of the words in the Bible. Hence we see red letter editions. However, even though God used many men to write the Bible, God is the author. All of those men wrote as God the Holy Spirit moved them, so that every word in the Bible is the literal Word of God. This principle must be kept in view if one is ever to come to truth when struggling with any doctrine concerning the christian faith. As you said...ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God.... and we live by EVERY word of God, regardless of who he used to write.

blueheron32

germanJoy

02-15-2006, 02:27 PM

Germanjoy, these statements you made are worrisome to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but it looks to me as if you believe that what Paul said were his words (since you said "Paul (not God)" ) and are NOT the inspired words of God. I don't want to get into a discussion about women and what they should and should not do in church. That is not my point here.

Don't you believe that every word in the Bible is the inspired Word of God?
God's word says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness. 2 Tim 3:16

If you do believe the scripture is inspired by God, then it was God speaking through Paul, not just Paul telling the people what was on his mind.
sisterinJesus, I understand your concern but no need to be worried. We have to be fully aware of the fact that Paul is indeed not God. If you believe that he was perfect, then he had become your god. He also committed a sin. Do you think he was perfect and holy? Of course not. Yes, although his writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit yet he himself was subject to mistakes. He likewise admitted that he was given a thorn in the flesh by God to keep himself from being arrogant. Whew, he realized that he too was merely a human like you and like me. The problem with many christians is that they make the human apostles God. But they are not, only Jesus Christ and His Words are perfect and holy.

If we are really honest to one another, we will be admitting that indeed (because of human errors) there are "contrasts" in the bible, for example:

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
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Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
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Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
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Order of creation
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
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Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

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Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

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Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

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God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)
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Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
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Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
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What did they give him to drink?
vinegar - Matthew 27:34

wine with myrrh - Mark 15:23
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Despite of the humane errors made by translators or authors, the Word of God remains perfect. One needs also to consider that mosts of the contrasts are not erroneous in nature but are written in different settings, time or places for a specific instruction to a specific group or people. That explains also the contrast when Paul wrote: "women are not allowed to speak in the church." versus the biblical fact that even before Paul wrote it "a woman spoke already in the temple of God". On top of it, he too believed that women will be called to prophesy. So why will he forbid something that has already been practised? Because he wrote it for a particular group of women at a particular place and at a particular time.

What do we do with biblical contradictions then? We need to know what, why, when, and how the authors wrote them. We need to analyze the facts and then arrive at a conclusion. What we are definitely not supposed to do is to totally ignore the contradicting part and only take the part that fits to what we want to hear.

God bless.

Daytimeson23

02-15-2006, 03:10 PM

Here is a question, if the tongues today are supposed to be the same as those in Acts and corinthians why is it we do not see tongues of fire, nor hear sounds of rushing winds. They mention that God uses the same gifts but how is it the method of showing these gifts has changed?

sisterinJesus

02-15-2006, 07:24 PM

1. The problem with many christians is that they make the human apostles God. But they are not, only Jesus Christ and His Words are perfect and holy.

Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

I don't think any Christians, or I certainly hope not, make the apostles their God. We know that they were mere humans used as God's instruments. But I believe the Bible clearly states that ALL scripture is inspired by God, even the parts we may not agree with or not like. The instruction Paul gave came from God..it was God's words to their ears. I have heard the arguement many times before, about what Paul said to the women and some think the meaning was a "one time deal", and it could very well be, :-) but we can't know that for sure. Even if it is a "one time deal", you don't think it was God giving instruction through Paul to the women in the church (at that time)?
When you spoke of Anna, saying, The bible says: "God commanded Anna (a woman) to speak in His temple". How do you know that? Wasn't it a mere man who scribed those words? Why should we trust Luke's (?, I didn't look it up but I think it was Luke) words and not Pauls?

The words you quoted from Matthew, Jesus's first sermon....how do you know Jesus even had a first sermon and those are His words? A mere man, Matthew, scribed those words, not Jesus.
Do you see how this could get us into a lot of trouble, a real pickel :-D ? If we say part of the Bible is God's words to us and part of it isn't...where do we draw the line??? That is why it is so important to believe God when His Word tells us - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

As for:
Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."
Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Are these two the same sermon to the same people? Is it possible that Jesus taught His so-called 'Sermon on the Mount' many times to many people? If you compare the two...they are simular but the words are a bit different and the order of the "blessed" is different.
In Matt, the second thing Jesus says is Blessed are they that mourn..
In Luke, the second thing Jesus says is Blessed are ye that hunger..

In searching things further we often find that the things we thought were contradictions are not really contradictions.

Do I think we have perfect translations? No. There could certainly be small errors but I don't believe it takes away from the meaning of what is being said nor takes away from the fact that God said it and it is inspired by Him.
If there are any errors it is merely translation errors and certainly doesn't make any difference in any doctrinal truth.
In Christ's love, :-)

Godsent

02-15-2006, 07:39 PM

Hi Godsent, praise God for your desire to seek for spiritual gifts knowing that everything good and perfect is from above.

First and foremost, I don't know anyone in the bible who had to fast to receive the gift of tonques. I don't think it would be wise to do so. But of course, if the Lord tells you to do so, then go ahead (after all fasting should be between you and God). However, keep in mind that fasting changes us (not God). If we fast, we deny our flesh and elevate our spirit, we put Christ's words into action (that men liveth not by bread alone but by God's Word), we bring ourselves into a closer fellowship with God, we make our "spiritual antenna" active, etc.

Secondly, if I may, I advise you to first ask your home physician whether you are physically fit (since you mentioned your being too skinny) to go for a fast.

Thirdly, allow me to relate my own experience of receiving the gift. Like you, I also went to the altar "hoping and praying" for it but to no avail. Despite of my ardent desires, nothing transpired. I decided to leave it into the hands of God. I felt there was no need to force a gift, it should be freely received and freely given. Otherwise, it would no longer be a gift.... you know what I mean? Ok, then one night (still with this fervent prayer in my heart) as I was lying in bed... I sensed within me an immense desire to praise and to thank God of His greatness in my life.. As I did it, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit fell upon me and I began to speak in tonques... then I cried and continued to praise Him.

May our great and mighty God grant your desire to walk in the fellowship and the power of the Holy Spirit and may His perfect will be fully manifested in your hidden life in Christ.

In the glorious powerful Name of Jesus, I pray.... Amen!
German Joy...i went and asked my preacher about fasting and he knows how skinny i am and he told me i just need to lay off all the snacks i eat at work cuz fasting is giving up something u really want in order to humble urself before God and as u said "let him know u mean business." I fasted today and prayed like three times during it even though i was at work and i really feel revived and God instilled a lot of peace and joy back in me. So ex the part that when i ate supper tonight i may have ate too fast other than that it was truly a blessing fasting for the first time and ive heard as christians we dont fast enough. So i think i should do this once or twice a week each week to really keep in touch with God and still go through with my regular praying. I feel God is wanting to use me for so much right now its amazing. :)

blueheron32

02-15-2006, 07:41 PM

Germanjoy..:-) Im surprised at you...lol....How could you seriously cast such doubt on the verity of Gods word? There is a simple law of logic, in fact it is the first law of logic normally taught...it is the law of contradiction. It says that, A thing cannot be, and not be, at the same time. In other words a dog cannot be a dog, and not a dog at the same time. The bible cannot be true and not true at the same time. It is either all true, and no contradiction, or it is entirely untrustworthy in all its parts. You cannot have it both ways germanjoy. It is either/or, not both/and.

Let God be true and every man a liar. The apparent contradictions you posted, are no contradictions at all. If they were actual contradictions then God is a liar. You or I may not have all the answers to remove the contradiction, but we must know that the contradiction does not exist. I have often struggled with scripture not being able to harmonize different passages, and then someone gives me the answer...another person, or all of the sudden my eyes are open and i understand. The fault lies with me, not the Word of God. His word is truth. No exceptions.

blueheron32

blueheron32

02-16-2006, 12:56 PM

Can we not just simply take the whole Scriptures (its whole events to be of God) and act by faith that the same blessings be poured upon us today also? Instead of making some changes and ignoring how really God worked in the past, let us start to believe with all our hearts that:

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He never changes. Amen!

Yes germanjoy, God is always the same..But he does not always reveal himself or relate to us in the same way today as he has done in the past...

Do we still offer burnt offerings or sacrifices...No...Those things came to an end.

Do we still observe the sabbath on the seventh day? No... God changed that to the first day..

Does God still make his presence known to us by a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day? No... We walk by faith not by sight.

Does Jesus still walk among us in a body of flesh? No...but he will return.

There is "one" new tongue germanjoy, that comes from God. It is made manifest in two ways....we see it at pentecost and several other times when God illustrated the Gospel going to jerusalem judea samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth, and again we see it in the church at corinth... That manifestation of the "new tongue" has come to an end when the bible was completed...(seems like we have been here before :-)

The new tongue referred as the "born again" tongue is still in the world, and exercised by all true believers. It is the same tongue as the other but simply a different manifestation... It is no less supernatural...it is a new creation which in all true believers witnesses to the wonderful grace of God.

The modern day "gift" of tongues is not related to the born again tongue, in either of its manifestations...but rather it is parallel to those stammering lips that those were blinded in israel went to....they rejected God, and sought help from assyria, in the case of the ten northern tribes, and babylon in the case of judah... In both cases those stammering lips were a judgment of God against a rebellious and stiffnecked people, who were not satisfied with the plain promises of God, but wanted something more exciting. They didnt trust God, so instead they placed their trust in the apparent strength and power of assyria and babylon....And God destroyed them...Today we see history repeating itself, not in national israel, but in the churches and congregations... It is the Lords doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes..

blueheron32

Daytimeson23

02-16-2006, 01:49 PM

Godsent, I believe your pastor really did mean well in his comments to you regarding fasting however, the bible describes it a little differently. Isaiah 58 describes the fast that God desires, and it is not one in which a man afflicts himself. Nor does it call you to disregard your "bread" but in fact to eat your bread and share it with those that do not have it. Now on the surface it seems to be speaking of helping the poor, and indeed it is true but there is a deeper spiritual meaning. Remember that Christ himself is the bread from heaven, so when God says the fast he desires is for us to share our bread, what he is telling us to do is share the word of God. Just food for thought

Bel

02-16-2006, 06:10 PM

Dear Lord,
please give godsent these gifts, and don't let the devel take from her what you are giving her. Bless her wanting to use your gifts. In Jesus name, Amen.

jmj81376

02-16-2006, 09:04 PM

Isaiah 58:4,5
4Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
5Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

I believe in these verses, God is telling them that they were not fasting for the right reasons.
"ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness" the fast was not for the Glory of God.

germanJoy

02-17-2006, 09:22 AM

Do we still offer burnt offerings or sacrifices...No...Those things came to an end.

It came to an end Blue because of the sacrifices Jesus made once and for all.. It is finished by Him, by His acts of sacrifice, by His Word.

Do we still observe the sabbath on the seventh day? No... God changed that to the first day..

It is changed because the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath... Jesus worked by healing the sick on the Sabbath.

Does God still make his presence known to us by a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day? No... We walk by faith not by sight.

God's presence is made known more than as a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day. Under the Old covenant, His presence was temporarily manifested to His people. Under the New covenant, His presence became permanently manifested to His children, God with us "Emmanuel"... we have become the temple of the Holy Spirit... we are the manifestation of His presence here on earth...

Does Jesus still walk among us in a body of flesh? No...but he will return.

After His ascenscion, neither did Jesus walk again in a body of flesh among the believers. But even after His ascencion, He still appeared to Saul, to Stephen, to John...and for sure to many more. And what makes you say that Jesus is not able to do that today as well? Did He never do it?

There is "one" new tongue germanjoy, that comes from God. It is made manifest in two ways....we see it at pentecost and several other times when God illustrated the Gospel going to jerusalem judea samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth, and again we see it in the church at corinth... That manifestation of the "new tongue" has come to an end when the bible was completed...(seems like we have been here before :-)

The new tongue referred as the "born again" tongue is still in the world, and exercised by all true believers. It is the same tongue as the other but simply a different manifestation... It is no less supernatural...it is a new creation which in all true believers witnesses to the wonderful grace of God.

These words are merely your own words, blue... you know that... all early believers had both, the "born-again" tonque and the gift of tonques (foreign and heavenly). There was no writing by any Apostles that claimed they will cease before the "perfect" comes. "Perfect" means only one, God. Don't tell me that the "perfect" is fulfilled by the works of men (which the Apostles failed to do) who canonized the bible. That is not only a very weak argument but very unscriptural as well.

The modern day "gift" of tongues is not related to the born again tongue, in either of its manifestations...but rather it is parallel to those stammering lips that those were blinded in israel went to....they rejected God, and sought help from assyria, in the case of the ten northern tribes, and babylon in the case of judah... In both cases those stammering lips were a judgment of God against a rebellious and stiffnecked people, who were not satisfied with the plain promises of God, but wanted something more exciting. They didnt trust God, so instead they placed their trust in the apparent strength and power of assyria and babylon....And God destroyed them...Today we see history repeating itself, not in national israel, but in the churches and congregations... It is the Lords doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes..

Who is rejecting God and who is more scriptural: the one who receives the gift of tonques from the Holy Spirit or the one who claims that this gift of tonques is not from the Holy Spirit. The bibles shows that the former is scriptural while the latter is rejecting the Spirit of God. :-(

germanJoy

02-17-2006, 09:33 AM

When you spoke of Anna, saying, The bible says: "God commanded Anna (a woman) to speak in His temple". How do you know that? Wasn't it a mere man who scribed those words? Why should we trust Luke's (?, I didn't look it up but I think it was Luke) words and not Pauls?

SisterinJesus, you mean we have to reject Luke's writing and accept only Paul's? May it never be!

And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with a husband seven years after her marriage, and then as a widow to the age of 84. And she never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers. And at that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Now do you believe me that there was a woman who spoke in the temple of God, a woman who did not remain silent? :)

germanJoy

02-17-2006, 09:40 AM

Blue.. I am also surprised at you thinkiing that I cast doubt on the veracity of God's Word. :LOL

I thought you are a man of logic... and yet you say on one hand that there are no contradictions and on the other hand you admit that the passages do not harmonize. Of course they won't because they are presenting two opposing meanings. I have given some examples and I guess you know what I mean.

I have not struggled on these contrasts because I see them with open eyes and heart. I know that the contrasts are not there to contradict one word from another but to tell us something we need to know, to expose something hidden, to expound the real meaning. And that is why we study the contrasts and arrive at conclusions. We then make a conclusion (keep this in mind for this is true) that AFTER ALL, THEY ARE NOT CONTRADICTORY but COMPLIMENTARY. That is what I meant, blue. Hope you understand what I am saying here and not twist my words. :-)

germanJoy

02-17-2006, 09:47 AM

You do not see it because you do not understand it; you do not hear the sounds because you do not believe it. You were never there so how can you say it has changed?

sisterinJesus

02-17-2006, 11:16 AM

SisterinJesus, you mean we have to reject Luke's writing and accept only Paul's? May it never be!

And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with a husband seven years after her marriage, and then as a widow to the age of 84. And she never left the temple, serving night and day with fastings and prayers. And at that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Now do you believe me that there was a woman who spoke in the temple of God, a woman who did not remain silent? :)

Hmm...Where did you get the idea that I said we should reject Luke's writings as not being inspired from God??? I certainly didn't say that. God is not a liar, I believe God when He tells us All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and that includes instruction given by Paul as well as Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Moses, etc.

The question to you was , "why do you believe that Luke's instruction came from God and Paul's instruction did not??"

I believe I told you in my first message to you that I didn't want to get into a discussion about women and what they should or should not do in the church. You said above "Now do you believe me". It not a matter of if I believe you or not about the role of women. You don't know what my views are on this subject, I have not expressed them. This is not about whether I agree or disagree. I told you that was not the point of my question. You made the statement that God was the one that commanded Anna..but Paul's words were merely Paul's words and not instruction from God.

You needn't twist my words around to dodge the question I asked you.

You either believe it is all God's instruction or call God a liar. God's words (according to 2 Tim 3:16) not mine. I choose to believe God.

Which side of the fence do you