Wives: Character, role, God's commandments!

[Fidelity]

The other day I was watching a conversation in the chat room where a young woman did not quite agree that a husband has the authority over the wife in the home, that he is literally the rule of the home. Well, I would like to post just a few scriptures that disagree with that person. I believe this should be covered due to the conversation I saw and it directly affects her as a young woman who may one day marry. However, in this topic I will not discuss a man’s role in the home very much since the baring here is rather on the wife’s role.

The Lord was clear that the woman was made for the man as Eve was for Adam, her husband and our Lord has given very specific instructions to a young woman when she is a wife. Now, the conversation I saw, the young lady said that a man does not literally rule over a woman, he does not actually get the final say so in the home. Well, I would first take into account Gen 3:16.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This is after the disobedience of Eve. God was clear a husband shall rule over the wife. The Greek word for rule is “maw-shal” which means to govern, reign, or to have power. Now as I said, I will not go into the role of a husband and how this is viewed by the husband or used, but it is up to the man and if he is a God fearing man. But just the same it was not just a man who said this and those we might not want to hear it from, but clearly God.


1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

The Greek word for benevolence is “yoo-noy-ah” and means kindness. A wife should render unto her husband kindness. For the married women, when did you last treat your husband with anything less.:-)

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

The Greek word for submit is “hoop-ot-as-so” and means subordinate: meaning basically in subjection to another or under control of another. Or quite clearly means to obey your husband.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Quite clearly we as the body of believers are subject unto Christ; however, among us there has been an order established and our husbands are the head of us as wives in everything.

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

In this passage, the Greek word for reverence is “fob`-eh-o” and means to fear or “to be in awe of”. When was the last time you really viewed your husband like this?..:-) When was the last time you looked down upon him? After all, is he perfect? Are we as wives?

Characters of a wife:
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Discreet “so-frone” means to be self controlled, sober, temperate.
Chaste “had nos`” means to be (figuratively) clean, innocent, modest, perfect.
Keepers at home: through out the ages, the typical role of a wife has been to stay at home and care for the children. We all realize that now times have changed in a manner that it is getting harder for a family to survive without the wife working also, but this does not change a wife’s role entirely. Working outside the home doesn’t change our role in the upbringing of our children and the up-keeping of the house. Of course, this may or may not have any help from the husband, but a wife should certainly do the best she can. And for those women who think their contribution from working means so much, remember to be modest since the husband works also and for many people, life would be much more difficult without both working and God watching over our homes.


Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.


Fidelity



Pro 19:14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Sidhe]

You see, scriptures and "lessons" such as the onse above, are the reason why many people, (ess. young women) are looking for new paths, in the religious and spiritual terms.
Characters of a wife:Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husband.
Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

I think that to treat women as an object of her husband is very wrong...spiritualy, mentally and emotionally.:nc
~SIDHE
p.s. yes, i know...spelling sucks:p

[blueheron32]

sidhe....a Godly woman being subject to her husband, is hardly the same things as saying she is an object of her husband. It means she is submitting to her husband, even as true believers submit themselves to their spiritual husband, Christ himself.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

blueheron32

[blueheron32]

So Swedenborgian, are you suggesting that a Godly woman who finds herself married to an unbeliever is to disregard the Lords instructions to her found in 1Peter 2:18 thru 3:6...?

blueheron32

[germanJoy]

So Swedenborgian, are you suggesting that a Godly woman who finds herself married to an unbeliever is to disregard the Lords instructions to her found in 1Peter 2:18 thru 3:6...?

blueheron32
blue, if the unbelieving husband is hindering the believing wife to obey God's Word or making the wife to disobey God's Word, yes I can imagine that! :-)

The Lord Jesus Christ should always be OVER AND ABOVE any human relationship including husband and wife. :)

[blueheron32]

Germanjoy...

You seem to be overlooking the context of the posted passage..1Pet 2:18 - 3:6... the first example is a servant living under an unjust master, and the servant suffers unjustly at the hands of this cruel master. The conclusion of that example is that the servant should suffer patiently, because hereunto were ye called...christ being our example.

The second example in that passage is Jesus himself, who when he suffered, and reviled, he did not protest, but quietly endured the suffering assigned to him....

The third example, is wives... and chapter three is a continuation of chapter two...Peter says..Likewise you wives....or...just as in the previous two examples... so it is with you wives. you believing wives...and it says they are to be in subjection to their "own" husbands. and if they are married to a husband that does not "obey the word", in other words, is a cruel tyrant of a husband, and nothing like the husband God describes for us to be... yet they are still be be subject to him...they are not to preach to him, and tell him how wrong he is...but are to quietly go about their business serving the Lord as they serve their husband patiently.

if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Pe 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.


I agree entirely with your last statement germanjoy....and it is because a wife is a child of God, and loves the Lord that she will obey him as described here in 1peter 3:1-6....

This is perhaps one of the hardest passages I have read in the bible, and even harder to apply....if I am misunderstanding this passage please explain to me wherein lies my error..

blueheron32

[romans 8:17]

sub·or·di·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-bôrdn-t)
adj.
Belonging to a lower or inferior class or rank; secondary.
Subject to the authority or control of another.

n.
One that is subordinate.

tr.v. sub·or·di·nat·ed, sub·or·di·nat·ing, sub·or·di·nates (s-bôrdn-t)
To put in a lower or inferior rank or class.

Thats what it means... too bad jesus came and fufilled the law! he broke the curse, so why still say Women/wives arent equal. Who has the final say well the bible says God should not husbands... wives and husbands should pray...together to find anwsers. If the husband want to be the head of the wife he has to give everything up for her and love her more then he loves himself. He has to honor her, love respect provide for her. Because of technology more women can work so the providing thing is less in most cases. But come on ! we are equal in christ interdpendant! Both bearers of Gods image and there is no room for power struggle its not about following laws , but by faith. take a look at the context before you start saying women are under mens authority......

[Fidelity]

sub·or·di·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-bôrdn-t)
adj.
Belonging to a lower or inferior class or rank; secondary.
Subject to the authority or control of another.

n.
One that is subordinate.

tr.v. sub·or·di·nat·ed, sub·or·di·nat·ing, sub·or·di·nates (s-bôrdn-t)
To put in a lower or inferior rank or class.

Thats what it means... too bad jesus came and fufilled the law! he broke the curse, so why still say Women/wives arent equal. Who has the final say well the bible says God should not husbands... wives and husbands should pray...together to find anwsers. If the husband want to be the head of the wife he has to give everything up for her and love her more then he loves himself. He has to honor her, love respect provide for her. Because of technology more women can work so the providing thing is less in most cases. But come on ! we are equal in christ interdpendant! Both bearers of Gods image and there is no room for power struggle its not about following laws , but by faith. take a look at the context before you start saying women are under mens authority......
Thats what it means... too bad jesus came and fufilled the law! he broke the curse, so why still say Women/wives arent equal. Who has the final say well the bible says God should not husbands... wives and husbands should pray...together to find anwsers. If the husband want to be the head of the wife he has to give everything up for her and love her more then he loves himself. He has to honor her, love respect provide for her. Because of technology more women can work so the providing thing is less in most cases. But come on ! we are equal in christ interdpendant! Both bearers of Gods image and there is no room for power struggle its not about following laws , but by faith. take a look at the context before you start saying women are under mens authority......

Romans, please tell me where Christ dieing on the cross changed the law that a woman should obey her husband. As a wife and a mother, I have read these passages many times and it did not say a woman might be able to disaboy her husband because Christ died for us or because times change. You mention being equal? Perhaps your drawing your conclusion from one particular passage I can remember off hand.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

According to this passage, we are in fact equal in Christ. But this does not mean that the husbands are not over the wives. You mentioned that technology has changed today. You are using our day in age as an example so lets use it. Are your school officials not over you? Do you not have to listen to them? Is your boss at work not considered to be over you? What about your government? Are they not over you and giving laws for you to follow? What happens if you break those laws? Punishment is inevitable! Yet, we are considered equal here on earth. But that does not change the order of things. The bible tells us to also obey man's laws and you think we no longer have to obey the law of a husband over his wife that came from God? Also you said that we are equal in Christ "interdepenant", but Gal 3:28 says we are "one" in Christ, not interdepent.

Let me use another example. Since you believe the bible is so clear on equality and you take that as the husband is not over the wife, what about your children? If were all equal in Christ both the man and the woman, both adult and children, no exceptions, then your children do not have to obey you either. You are not over your children correct? Since you did say were all equal? The bible did not change that children should obey their parents, neither has the law over husbands and wives. Now I am assuming you are a wife and maybe you have children or maybe you do not. But hopefully your not just another female teen who does not like the scriptures as they are and so think they should be changed or rather argue they have been. But the fact is, the bible does not say this law has changed. Romans, keep in mind what God said..

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Lord help us to be God fearing women, obedient to our husbands as we are unto Christ. Lord willing that we may be virtuous woman, not rebellous women who lack the word of God. Amen


Fidelity

[blueheron32]

Romans....

I reread my post and do not see there that I used the term or implied in any way that a woman is subodinate...to men...as per your definition. Neither did I in any way suggest that all are not equal in Christ. And in a marriage relationship, as God designed it between a husband who loves his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it, and a wife, who freely honors her husband in his God ordained role...there is no power struggle, except in the minds of those, either men or women, who do not desire to fulfill the purpose God has given them.

Jesus did not remove the order of creation he established from the beginning..in fact he re emphasized it in the new testament. It is a blessed marriage where the model God provides is clearly seen.

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

blueheron32

[romans 8:17]

I dont have time to get the scripture passages now i will do it soon though... im stressing equality, look at the example of jesus... ill post scriptures in 2 days when im not so busy

[Rylee]

So, does this mean that you can't be a feminist and a Christian at the same time? I'm a Christian, but I believe that women and men are equal. Please correct me if I'm wrong; please correct me if women and men are, in fact, NOT equal.

[jmj81376]

1 Corithians 7:4
The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Scripture tells us that husbands are the head of the house. At the same time, while husbands are the head of the house, they have not authority of their own body. 1 Cor 7:4 is telling us that the husband has authority of the wife's body and the wife has authority over the husband's body.

[Rylee]

So... are you saying that it's wrong for the wife to be the head of the household? By "head of household" I mean the one to be in charge of the finances. If both husband and wife work, but wife pays the bills, that makes her the head of the household in my opinion. Of course, major decisions should be decided by BOTH partners, and not just one "head of household", correct?

[Fidelity]

Rylee, are we equal? The bible says both men and woman, bond or free are all "one" in Christ. But there has always been an order among a husband and wife. Just as in America we are all considered equal; that does not change the present authority. I used the example of our goverment as an authority over Americans. The same applies to the bible. Both men and women are all considered equal in Christ, but God set forth an order among us. The husband is the head of the wife in the sense that he governs the home.

[Rylee]

Define "governs" for me. Governs as in makes the important decisions? Governs as in, when he puts his foot down, at the end of the day, what he says goes? I'm asking because I would have a definite problem being with somebody where we weren't BOTH the "head of household". I would consider myself a team with my partner, not a helper. I understand the equality issue, but it's different in the home? Maybe I'll be able to understand better if I can get a better grasp on what all is defined as "governing the home".

[jmj81376]

If both husband and wife work, but wife pays the bills, that makes her the head of the household in my opinion. Of course, major decisions should be decided by BOTH partners, and not just one "head of household", correct?

Rylee,
My husband and I both work and I handle the finances, but my husband is still head of the house. We make major decisions together, but in the end, it ultimately is his decision. We discuss things, but in the end I will(most of the time) submit to his decision. I cannot say that I am totally submissive to him because that is hard to do. That is where the world comes in instead of God. If I let the world in my marriage instead of God, I stumble. That is one of my daily battles.

[Rylee]

I have an "aggressive" personality... now, don't confuse "aggressive" with "mean"... I'm just not in any way, shape, or form passive. I don't know if I ever could be passive. It's just not me. I'm very outspoken and opinionated... and sometimes I can be a little bit rude, but I realize that this is a weakness and I'm working on it with God's help. What made me want to reply to this topic is this: my boyfriend and I were talking, and he said that in the bible it said that women need to submit to their men. This immediately infuriated me and we had a big argument about it. So, the second I saw this thread I knew that I had to talk to somebody who actually knew what they were talking about (instead of somebody who would put their own twist on things like my boyfriend often does :)). If I have to be submissive in order to be married, I can't say that I would be able to get married... I have never been submissive a day in my life. That would definitely be a struggle for me.

So, is it necessary to be submissive in order to have the type of marriage that God intended us to have? I could never just "give up" my opinion... if there was a decision that needed to be made, and my husband felt one way but I felt very strongly the other way, and I *knew* that I was right, I could never just say, "Okay, honey, we'll just do whatever you want." That's not me at all, and I feel as though that would be compromising myself to just bow down to him. I'm not a stereotypical "feminist", but I don't think that people should let themselves be walked upon, either.

[Fidelity]

Rylee, your question sounds more like one that would be asked on a tax return..:-) If a woman managing the finances makes her the head of the house hold then I too am guilty, but no that is not what this means. My husband works and makes the money to pay the bills, but I manage the bills and help see they get paid when they should.

Also, if both husband and wife work then I would think the income is put together for the home, but your question was if the wife pays the bills does that make her the head of the household. And the answer in a biblical sense is no it does not. The government would consider her the head of the household in certain cases, but we are talking about the bible and what God says about the role of a wife and the bible is clear on the God given role of a wife. As for both people making decisions in the home, that depends on the marriage of each individual couple. My husband asks for my view or opinion on certain matters and considers it, but he makes the final decision of what will take place and I have no problem with this God given arrangment. The thing I see most often today is women who do not like what the bible says about the role for women. But all too common is young women who don't liek this. It seems older women have little to no problem with God's command, but the younger women do. But they also fail to see the blessing in the home when each person carries the role God has instructed him/her...:-)

[jmj81376]

I don't mean submissive to mean that if he says "jump" I say "how high". I mean that when it comes to decisions concerning our life and our household, I give my opinion but in the end let him make the decision.

[Rylee]

But what if it was something that was a big deal... lets say for example, you have a daughter who is a teenager and approaches you and says, "I don't want to go to church anymore. It's just not for me." Let's just say for the sake of argument that he says that you should let her make her own decision, since you can't force somebody in to Christianity, and forcing her to go to church may drive her away, but you say that letting her stray from the church will only make it that much harder to bring her back, and letting her get worldly ideas in her head will just tear her away from God. Now, I'm just using this as an example of the severity of the situation: a scenario involving your daughter's future.

If it were an important decision, and you know in your heart that you're right, would you still let him make the decision, regardless of knowing that the outcome might not come out as desired?

[Rylee]

I am a younger woman, and my mother is not married to my father, and the man that she ended up marrying isn't a Christian. He is not a nice guy, and he makes all of the decisions. He used to be abusive to her, and they both claim that the abuse has stopped, but who knows... Anyhow, I suppose that sometimes I see this arrangement and think to myself, "I'd never let that happen to me! I'm a strong, independent woman, and no man will ever walk on me like they've walked on my mother!" That's honestly exactly how I feel, and why I feel as though I could never submit to a man. I don't know how I'd ever get over that feeling, because it's so much a part of who I am.

[jmj81376]

I am speaking of a christian home. It is hard to be submissive to someone who does not share your beliefs.

[Rylee]

The person I am with now (who I have been with for many years and who I believe is "the one") has the same beliefs that I do. We've even talked about the major issues that we will one day face, including raising our children in a Christian home, and we have not once had a huge difference of opinions that couldn't be talked out. I suppose that I'm talking in terms of "what if"... What if there's a big argument, and I refuse to back down from my stance? Will that make me a bad wife, or worse, a bad Christian? Will that make me a sinner for not letting my opinion go? I don't think I could ever forgive myself if I backed down against something that I felt strongly against.
I'm not saying that this will ever happen to me; I can't imagine us arguing over something so incredibly huge that we couldn't come to some sort of a compromise. But, I need to ask, is compromise okay? Or, does it need to be what HE wants? Is it asking too much for me to say, "Okay, honey, I know that you want things this way, but how about we do it a little bit my way and a little bit your way?"

[jmj81376]

There is nothing wrong with compromise.

Just a little advice: Don't 'what if' it too much, cause if you do you will ' what if' your way out of it. Just hand it to God and He will take care of you.

[Rylee]

I have been told that so many times... people always say, "Rylee, if you ask "What if" one more time..." :) It's something I'm working on. I'm definitely a worrier, and yes, I know that I am to put my cares on to God and he will see me through... it's much easier said than done. :)

[Fidelity]

Define "governs" for me. Governs as in makes the important decisions? Governs as in, when he puts his foot down, at the end of the day, what he says goes? I'm asking because I would have a definite problem being with somebody where we weren't BOTH the "head of household". I would consider myself a team with my partner, not a helper. I understand the equality issue, but it's different in the home? Maybe I'll be able to understand better if I can get a better grasp on what all is defined as "governing the home".
Rylee, given the tone of your questions, I sense some bitterness. Sounds like you've really been around a power trip..:-) But yes what I mean by governs is he makes the final decision, unless a compromise is met. If you compromise and your husband too agrees the conclusion is acceptable then so be it. But the bible is clear a woman should not usurp authority over her husband. To usurp means to "act of oneself" or to "dominate". 1Tim 2:12 But, the point in this whole post was to point out what the bible says. Whether you like it or don't like is between you and God. But when you find yourself faced with the position of submitting to your husband, I pray you make the biblical decision rather than the worldly one.

Fidelity

[Rylee]

Well thank you, I appreciate that. I would definitely need prayer to make the right decision, because that is definitely something that I struggle with. If my husband made a decision that I didn't agree with, I know for sure that I would argue with him about it until I won. This has shown me that it really is something that I need to work on. I suppose that I thought it was okay, because as long as I was getting my point across, then everybody won. I know now that I'm wrong in thinking that. I will make it a point to try to change, but it will definitely take a while as this is a strong character trait of mine that has been developed since I was very young, and I've never changed something about myself that was so much a part of my identity. All that I can say at this point is that I'll try to lay this issue on God and have him mold me in to the person that He wants me to be.

[germanJoy]

Well explained, blue, I am totally in agreement to your presentation. I myself (not just have to) LOVE to submit to my own husband. I don't know but it is true that we are made to desire for our husbands and SUBMITTING is really no struggle, it becomes self-explanatory and there is even a DESIRE within us to submit. It sort of "turns us on" (I don't know any other terms, sorry for using this) to have a HUSBAND who leads and not one who is being led.

The only problem I see is that some women I know who are married to unbelieving husbands are making this (submission) as an excuse to justify their wrong doings. I guess we need to know where to draw the line. Therefore a woman should first SUBMIT to the WORD OF GOD over and above her husband.

When my husband forbade me to follow Jesus, I stood up and said "NO, I love Jesus more than you." Do you get my point?

[Rylee]

I don't understand how anybody could have a desire to submit. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but I am incredibly independent and can't imagine myself submitting to anyone. If I am in opposition to what my husband says, he will know it. I can't just lay down and say, "Okay, you're right." if I know in my heart that he is wrong.

[romans 8:17]

rylee... i agree with what you are saying... except you shouldnt be a push over.. neither should your husband be, the bible says to submit to one another and that we both give our authrity to the other spouse. Paul was telling men if they want to be the head of women they cant take all the authroity they have to be like servants and women are equal qith men. I am not feminist but i believe in equality
http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/pdf_files/free_articles/PPWhatIsBiblical.pdf this link explains biblical equality, and context that most christians overlook. http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/about/about_cbe.shtml
look over this im not forcing this view its just what God has revealed to me on the situation.. hope it helps!
In christ!

[Rylee]

That's terrific... it's kind of like everything that I've been trying to say, but I've felt was wrong. At least I'm not the only one who sees things from this perspective. Thank you very much for sharing that website. :)

[OneJoe]

rylee... i agree with what you are saying... except you shouldnt be a push over.. neither should your husband be, the bible says to submit to one another and that we both give our authrity to the other spouse. Paul was telling men if they want to be the head of women they cant take all the authroity they have to be like servants and women are equal qith men. I am not feminist but i believe in equality
http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/pdf_files/free_articles/PPWhatIsBiblical.pdf this link explains biblical equality, and context that most christians overlook. http://www.cbeinternational.org/new/about/about_cbe.shtml
look over this im not forcing this view its just what God has revealed to me on the situation.. hope it helps!
In christ!
Romans, its so easy to take the writings of another person who likes to twist the scriptures and leave out verses that would contradict their belief. The bible says to study to show thyself approved. Is taking the writings of someone else studying the bible for yourself? I think not! I would sure like to see you put up your stance based on the bible and what God's word says rather than what someone else says.


Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.


Onejoe

[germanJoy]

I don't understand how anybody could have a desire to submit. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but I am incredibly independent and can't imagine myself submitting to anyone. If I am in opposition to what my husband says, he will know it. I can't just lay down and say, "Okay, you're right." if I know in my heart that he is wrong.
Hi Rylee, it is a matter of time, training and willingness to submit to God. The first step is to submit yourself COMPLETELY to the WORD OF GOD. Once His Word takes the central place in your heart, submission to your future husband automatically becomes your desire. The next step is once you have that attitude, the husband also automatically LOVES you unconditionally....he listens to you....he gives you freedom to exercise your desire as a mother, as a wife and whatever functions you have in life.... he supports you in all your undertakings... he becomes your best friend and your best lover, etc.. Without submission that is having a heart of resisting or leading him, you will just end up fighting with him all the days of your marriage life. It will never work, it is destined to break apart.

God bless you in your search for submission. :-)

[romans 8:17]

Ok here it is one joe :)
“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head-it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.) Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.”

the word head is kephale and it can mean authority or source. It is made clear that both God and Christ are equal. This passage goes on to say that we are all dependant on eachother. Though woman came from man every man since has came from women, equalizing our different functions.

Ephesians 5: 21-33



"And further, you will submit to one another out of reverence to Christ. You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of His body, the Church; he gave His life to be her savior. As the Church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything.”

This is talking about mutual submission, then it pinpoint hw wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbamds are to give everything up for their wives just as wives should do the same for their husbands, that is what submission is and it is mutual.

“And you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the Church. He gave up His life for her to make her Holy and clean, washed by baptism and God's word. He did this to present her to Himself as a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead she will be Holy and without fault.”

Now it is talking of how husbands are responsible to wives, they have to sacrifice themselfs for the womens benefit, trying hard to keep christ at the center of their marriage. This is not talking about authority.

“In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man actually loves himself when he loves his wife. No one hates his own body but lovingly cares for it, just as Christ cares for His body, which is the Church. And we are His body.”

Here it is saying men should care for women, they should help out with whatever they can to make their wives life easier, and the wife should do the same for her husband.

“As the scriptures say, 'a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.' This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the Church are one. So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband." (NLT)

This is just reffering to oneness in marriage, closness.

[romans 8:17]

1 Peter 3
Wives
1In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands, even those who refuse to accept the Good News. Your godly lives will speak to them better than any words. They will be won over 2by watching your pure, godly behavior.

Legally under the law women were under their husbands authority and they had to except it just in the same way as a slave had to accept his master's authority. God wants us to follow the rules of the land . In genesis Women are cursed and put under men. But jesus came and broke the curse stopping satan from bugging us anymore.We have become new creations and in christ there is no male or female (galations 3:28)

3Don't be concerned about the outward beauty that depends on fancy hairstyles, expensive jewelry, or beautiful clothes. 4You should be known for the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God. 5That is the way the holy women of old made themselves beautiful. They trusted God and accepted the authority of their husbands. 6For instance, Sarah obeyed her husband, Abraham, when she called him her master. You are her daughters when you do what is right without fear of what your husbands might do.

It is now saying that women should have such good actions and not to try to control their husbands outwardly but to be beautiful on the inside and shine with the image of God. Go the extra step and call your husband you master be like a slave, Christ became like a slave for his bride, so men should do the same. women should follow God without fear of what their husbands will do.

Husbands
7In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat her with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not be heard.
Children honor you parents and HUSBANDS HONOR YOUR WIVES??? yes it is in the bible. Be understanding and you are equals, eqauls are not inferior or superior leaders or followers. Treat her as an equal or your prayers will be hindered wow!


3The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy, which is her right as a married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband. 4The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband also gives authority over his body to his wife. 5So do not deprive each other of sexual relations. The only exception to this rule would be the agreement of both husband and wife to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time, so they can give themselves more completely to prayer. Afterward they should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt them because of their lack of self-control. 6This is only my suggestion.

This is talking about physical and sexual authority and women and men should pray together to make decisions and both need to give their authority to the other.

[romans 8:17]

I hope it helped onejoe that is what i believe have any questions? I love a challenge

[wizziewife]

Fidelity xxx

I have read and re read your post and i think what the bible says is right but the 'obey' word is a tough one! I think obey means to respect the hubbys wishes don't you? Alot of people think it means that you should run to the fridge when your husband asks and bring him a beer (an example)...which is not what is meant in the bible at all. I have been the wordly wife and not been truly happy but when i treat my hubby as the bible tells me, we both are happier and we have a deep respect for each other. I am far from perfect but treating your husband as if you are here totally for him and want to do everything you can for him is very rewarding and you get the utmost respect back! But respect has to come from the husband too......

I think what i am trying to say is that if you truly love your man...you will do all those things that the bible says you should....but the bible gives you guidelines that you should interpret in an appropriate way?

[romans 8:17]

Yeah mutal submission love and respect, have a problem in a fight to try to be an authority or a follower, together go in prayer and God will lead the way :)

[OneJoe]

1 Peter 3
Wives
1In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands, even those who refuse to accept the Good News. Your godly lives will speak to them better than any words. They will be won over 2by watching your pure, godly behavior.

Legally under the law women were under their husbands authority and they had to except it just in the same way as a slave had to accept his master's authority. God wants us to follow the rules of the land . In genesis Women are cursed and put under men. But jesus came and broke the curse stopping satan from bugging us anymore.We have become new creations and in christ there is no male or female (galations 3:28)

3Don't be concerned about the outward beauty that depends on fancy hairstyles, expensive jewelry, or beautiful clothes. 4You should be known for the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God. 5That is the way the holy women of old made themselves beautiful. They trusted God and accepted the authority of their husbands. 6For instance, Sarah obeyed her husband, Abraham, when she called him her master. You are her daughters when you do what is right without fear of what your husbands might do.

It is now saying that women should have such good actions and not to try to control their husbands outwardly but to be beautiful on the inside and shine with the image of God. Go the extra step and call your husband you master be like a slave, Christ became like a slave for his bride, so men should do the same. women should follow God without fear of what their husbands will do.

Husbands
7In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat her with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not be heard.
Children honor you parents and HUSBANDS HONOR YOUR WIVES??? yes it is in the bible. Be understanding and you are equals, eqauls are not inferior or superior leaders or followers. Treat her as an equal or your prayers will be hindered wow!


3The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy, which is her right as a married woman, nor should the wife deprive her husband. 4The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband also gives authority over his body to his wife. 5So do not deprive each other of sexual relations. The only exception to this rule would be the agreement of both husband and wife to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time, so they can give themselves more completely to prayer. Afterward they should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt them because of their lack of self-control. 6This is only my suggestion.

This is talking about physical and sexual authority and women and men should pray together to make decisions and both need to give their authority to the other.
1 Peter 3
Wives
1In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands, even those who refuse to accept the Good News. Your godly lives will speak to them better than any words. They will be won over 2by watching your pure, godly behavior.

Legally under the law women were under their husbands authority and they had to except it just in the same way as a slave had to accept his master's authority. God wants us to follow the rules of the land . In genesis Women are cursed and put under men. But jesus came and broke the curse stopping satan from bugging us anymore.We have become new creations and in christ there is no male or female (galations 3:28)


No where in that passage does it say Christ's death stopped the order between husbands and wives. That was an added opinion..:-)

That verse clearly speaks of the role of a wife, how her behavior may win the person without the word. There's nothing about Christ's death here..:-)

[Fidelity]

Fidelity xxx

I have read and re read your post and i think what the bible says is right but the 'obey' word is a tough one! I think obey means to respect the hubbys wishes don't you? Alot of people think it means that you should run to the fridge when your husband asks and bring him a beer (an example)...which is not what is meant in the bible at all. I have been the wordly wife and not been truly happy but when i treat my hubby as the bible tells me, we both are happier and we have a deep respect for each other. I am far from perfect but treating your husband as if you are here totally for him and want to do everything you can for him is very rewarding and you get the utmost respect back! But respect has to come from the husband too......

I think what i am trying to say is that if you truly love your man...you will do all those things that the bible says you should....but the bible gives you guidelines that you should interpret in an appropriate way?
Hi wizzewife, I believe obey means exactly what it says. We should obey and submit to our husbands. Also, I wouldn't entirely says it means "respect"..:-)

Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

I would use honor as an alternative word, but I believe I know what your saying.:-) But yes we agree that out of love for our husband and fear of God we keep the law of God and submit to our husbands. I would like to think that every wife who did as God commands her got the same love and honor back from her husband, but that isn't always the case. I am blessed to have a husband who loves me and fears God, as are all women who have a husband they have been brought together with by God. God bless!

Fidelity

[blueheron32]

"The only problem I see is that some women I know who are married to unbelieving husbands are making this (submission) as an excuse to justify their wrong doings. I guess we need to know where to draw the line. Therefore a woman should first SUBMIT to the WORD OF GOD over and above her husband.

When my husband forbade me to follow Jesus, I stood up and said "NO, I love Jesus more than you." Do you get my point?"

german joy, I get your point...:-) If a believing wife is commanded by her unbelieving husband to do something contrary to the word of God, of course she must disobey him, But that must be done in the context of humility towards him, and in subjection to him. That is when 1Peter 3 becomes very difficult... Some unsaved husbands will respond patiently towards his wife...and accept her refusal to obey him...perhaps as a result of her continual obedience to the Word of God, as she has honored him in the past, loving him in all things lawful...

the problem comes when the husband is cruel, and the wife suffers his abuse, How sad a situation that can be, and what patience and wisdom a wife needs in such a case. The only hope for a wife in such a situation is to love the Lord with all her heart and soul and strength, and her husband as herself...God is faithful...he will keep his own...

Psa 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?

Psa 72:14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Psa 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

blueheron32