Can TRULY saved people Stray/Backslide?

[Sara †]

I believe the answer to be yes and here is why.

The Bible shows us many places where people not only sin for a moment but they wander from God. And these people are not the unsaved either these are people that were saved and held in high regard.

Now I say “stray” and who knows how long that may be, it is not our time frame but God’s! But some scripture shows us what will happen when we do “stray”

first, if we do not turn back on our own, God punishes us..........Hebrews 12:5-11(ESV)
5And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." 7It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated,
then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11For the moment all discipline
seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of
righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Now we see that if we do not turn back then he will take us home before our time ..........1 Cor 5:5 (ESV)
5you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord

AND ......................1 Cor 11:29-32 (ESV)
29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

AND...........1 John 5:15-17 (ESV)
f16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life--to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

AND 1 more :) .............2 Samuel 12:13-14(ESV)
13David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to
David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die."

NOW.............I will give Biblical examples of those who did backslide/stray..

Ex. 1.) In 2 Samuel Ch. 12 , the Prophet Nathan confronted King David about his sin with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband Uriah. It had been almost 9 months since King David had committed murder and adultery without repenting! Now if a truly saved person can not stray/backslide then some of the Psalms would have been written by an unbeliever.

Ex.2.) “Jonah was a prophet woowoo, but he never really got it, sad but true”
(Veggie tales) ANYWAY........
Jonah found In the book of............Jonah, he is a truly saved brother! But he CHOSE to disobey God and RUN and hop on a boat to Tarshish. Now because of his sin and disobedience God sent a storm and a “big Fish” to swallow him up and bring him to his senses. Now you can look at this story and say “yes he sinned, but that is not straying”. How LONG do you think this time frame was. Would this fall under a “moment” of sin or a “period” of sin??? HHHMMM

Ex.3.) King Solomon is referred to one of the wisest men to have ever lived. He wrote most of the book of Proverbs and the Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes and he Built the Temple in Jerusalem which the Lord blessed. BUT.......at the end of his life King Solomon committed idolatry and even built “high places” to the false gods of his day. So again we find here, If a true believe cannot backslide then these books were written by an unbeliever.

Ex.4.)Now we have .............Samson who we find in the book of judges, he
was a Nazirite and a judge over Israel for twenty years. Samson constantly
defiled his Nazarite separation through carnal appetites. Are you going to
go against Scripture and dare call Samson an unbeliever due to his many
sins? The Bible has this to say about Samson in the great hall of faith in
Hebrews chapter 11:"And what shall I more say? For the time would fail me
to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David
also, and Samuel, and of the prophets," Hebrews 11:32.

Now if you show me Hebrews chapter 6 to argue my post, here is my response in advance, I did not write this but I found it and it was what I would say anyway......:p well kinda.....

Hebrews 6:4-6 .................In fact, even though this passage talks about partaking of the Holy Spirit and tasting of the heavenly gift, it isn't talking about people who are saved. As Hebrews 6:9 says, "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way." That is, even though the author speaks in this threatening way, he means his words to apply to those in the church who are not saved and who then despise Christ, not to those who are saved. Of those who are saved, he expects "better things ... things that accompany salvation." (reformedanswers.org)

So in conclusion I would say that The Lord allows us to choose to stray/backslide, but we will not enjoy it and he will eventually bring us back to him or take us home before our time ........

ANY questions/comments from the peanut gallery? :-D

[Daytimeson23]

I would have to say no for the simple fact that "backsliding" would mean that a person is no longer following the Lord. This is not possible. The examples above are that of a believer committing sin, however they are never found no longer following the Lord which is what backsliding is. So to answer the topic question I would have to answer no in this case.

[Sara †]

Daytime, What do you mean by "no longer following the Lord?" is that synonomous(to you) with completely disowning God? if that's what you meant, then i would agree with you. A true child of God cannot completely abandon Him or "no longer follow Him". But we do agree that believers can fall into sin. When this happens,as in the case of David, then they are no longer following the Lord. One cannot follow God and sin at the same time. So, I do believe(and scripture teaches) that it is possible for believers to have times in their life when they are not following God. I do not believe that it is possible for them to completely cease to follow Him............So here is my simple question.......How could Jonah be following God while Running from him at the same time? ;)

[Daytimeson23]

If a person sins at one point in his life after becoming saved does not mean that he has stopped following God, in the case of David all he did was sin, however never did he cease to be saved and never did he not have the spirit of God within him, so that being the case he never stopped following God. If we say that we stopped following God means that we have lost the nature in which God has placed in us as a new creature but that too is not possible. So while it is possible for a believer to sin, it is not possible for him to stop following God, because it would then mean that the spirit of God has left that individual, and that would mean that salvation has been lost, as we all know that is a no no.

[OneJoe]

Hello Sara, I don't have much time to post so i will make this short. I just want to briefly ask a few questions. Now, I want to be clear on this word "stray". I see straying as leaving something or someone or getting off a certain path, would you agree with that? Now, you mention straying from God, sinning basically, and perhaps for an amount of time? My questions is, when we sin, are we getting off that path to God? Is tribulations, sin, repentance, faith, etc, not all part of the path to perfection? Now, I am unsure as to your exact meaning of straying from God; however, we all sin now and then but that does not mean that we strayed from God or left the path that God has set before us. Now, you mentioned Jonah choosing to go to Tarshish instead of listening to God. I really question that whole matter due to the fact that it doesn't say he chose to disobey God and the fact that nothing happens that isn't according to God's will; therefore, since his choice is not over God's will, and God knows what we will do, perhaps this was all part of God's bigger plan? Also, I don't see how Jonah strayed from God. He did disobey; therefore, he did sin in doing so, but that is no different then what people do today when they sin. Now, Hebrews 6 talks about people falling away. I realize you view this as non-believers, but I'm not sure how you view the whole context in regard to people straying. If you don't view straying and falling away as the same thing then Hebrews 6 doesn't have much baring on this topic unless you believe they are the same thing. I would say that someone sinning does not mean they strayed from God and perhaps someone who turns back into a sinful life was not saved like they thought? Again, scripture says that if someone does not keep the commandments then they do not have the father or the son so perhaps if someone "strays" and I don't mean sinning because we all do that but actually "stray" such as they are not seeking his word, praying, repenting, etc then they weren't saved, but now I am thinking to myself so i hope you catch the dilema here because there is a fine line between straying and actually falling away. I will attempt to be more clear the next time I post but this one must be short. Respond to this if you like then perhaps it will help me understand how you view someone straying and what events take place the reason you view it as such. God bless

[ldsfriend]

Once saved always saved is a folly, or cop-out. We all have our free agency to chose to be righteous or not. I know of good people who have fallen away from God, because of they choices in life. If a person does not repent of ther sins, when they know they are sinning, they have not place with God weather they had been saved or not. when we are saved or when we have been converted its just the begging of a life of trying to do the right thing, not the begging and end, if so free will is not exsistent. Hope i made sence.

[Daytimeson23]

LOL well my ldsfriend please tell me what the meaning of the word eternal means? Then explain how eternal life which is salvation comes to an end.

[Theo]

Man i love talks like this!:) . But back to the issue. If a Christian sins does that mean they have strayed? of course not! As long as we are in this flesh this body sin will also remain.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
when a christian persistantly commits a sin is when straying occurs. So yes i believe that a truly saved christian can stray for the simple fact that we are still have the sinful nature in us, so long as that christian repents of their sin. But if they refuse to, then, as sad and upsetting as it may sound, their salvation is in question.

[ldsfriend]

all persons will be resusrected being good or bad and thus living forever.(eternal life) but salvation is more than living forever, its living with God in his kingdom.

[germanJoy]

Hi Sara, your question "Can TRULY saved people stray/backslide?" is connected to the topic: "Free Will" If one answers "yes" then one is for free will. If one answers "no" then one is for "once saved always saved and/or predestination i.e., no free will".

You have quoted enough Scriptures that supports the idea of "free will" that christians may go or be led astray simply because of "free will". "Falling away" in Hebrews for me sounds "backsliding". For someone to be in a state of "falling away" means that this someone was once "standing aright/upright" with the Lord. Therefore he was considered as having partook the Holy Spirit and having tasted heavenly gifts. I only fall away if I was in a walking or standing position before, otherwise I cannot be falling away.

Many bible verses like 1 Peter 4:18 do not support "once saved is always saved" belief And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and sinner?. Why is it difficult? I guess because we need to WORK OUT our salvation with fear and trembling. If we don't, we will tend to be sluggish, take sin for granted, and with it fall away. But if we do, we will tend to put on the FULL ARMOR of God and fight the good fight of faith and win the prize.

Yes, all of us without exception are sinning but how do we deal with it? Do we ignore or refuse to acknowledge it and in the end get immune to it? Or do we confess it, ask for forgiveness and repent from it? Isn't it we need to have free will to make this decision? :-)

[Daytimeson23]

actually no, not everyone will have eternal life, those whom God has not saved they will have eternal DEATH. So you are incorrect in your assumption that salvation is more than eternal spiritual life, and again you have YET to show how this eternal life ends? Which was your original folly.

[wwjd_05]

hey i'am new to the forum...nice question umm..it depends on the person...if they are strong enough in Christ then they shouldn't b worrying...

[Godsent]

I would say yes also that a truly saved person can stray or backslide because i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that im saved and i have been guilty many times over of backsliding and not being more "christ like" or "on fire for God as i put it. TTYL, bye and GBU

[zarxs]

German Joy Wrote: '"Can TRULY saved people stray/backslide?" is connected to the topic: "Free Will" If one answers "yes" then one is for free will. If one answers "no" then one is for "once saved always saved and/or predestination i.e., no free will".'

GermanJoy that is not necessarily true. People who believe in "once saved always saved" still believe in the unforgivable sin costing eternal life as well as intentionally teaching that God doesn't exist costing it as well. (struggling for words today)

In my neck of the woods "Once Saved Always Saved" is the most common Protestant belief. Those who follow it that say there are no limits are not fully versed on thier own belief.

[Stephen Jones]

I believe it can and does happen.

I am one of those people who were "saved", but made some wrong choices in life. However, I repented and now enjoy a good relationship with the Lord...

Stephen

[germanJoy]

Hi zarxs,

quite interesting to know that those believing on "once saved ALWAYS saved" still believes on unforgivable sin since it contradicts itself. Anyway, your correction is welcomed, thanks for that one. Could it also be the reason why I wrote "once saved always saved AND/OR predestination?

God bless.

[safintruth]

no because the bible says whom the son shall make freee he shall be free indeed. in jude the bible says he is able to keep you from falling.

[blueheron32]

Hi germanjoy...

First of all let me welcome you back to the board...I was truly happy to see you again, I had been afraid we had lost you when we changed the board around. I enjoy you presence here because you are a worthy opponent, and because you are always so clear in stating your position. I appreciate that. But you should know this, that even though you are my adversary here , at times..:-)...my whole desire is that you will become my friend, and that we will come to a position of agreement...:-D

First of all if a "truly saved person" could actually backslide...I think I would have to agree with you...that would be fatal to the idea of eternal security and it would establish free will.

In the bible "backsliding" is almost exclusively used to describe National Israels rebellious and stiffnecked condition. that is National Israel and never the Israel of God..ie the remnant that was always present within national Israel, saved by grace. Even though the Nation as a whole back slid..God always preserved a remnant of the faithful for himself..

There is ample evidence that true believers do sin...and that they may even fall into sin for a season, but at no time do true believers fall from grace. the hebrews 6, example is the same as the example of national israel, national israel had all the advantages of the law..the covenants, the miracles God performed before them.. the pillar of fire..the tabernacle....and on and on...they all "tasted" of the Good things of God but very few of them became saved.. In the same way at any time during the church age many in the churches enjoyed the benefits of being closely associated with the church...they listened to sermons, attended bible study, perhaps were baptized and partook of the lords table...in many ways they "tasted" of the heavenly gift and were partakers of the Holy Spirit, but never became saved...

Germanjoy,,, you have a common habit of quoting a verse that "seems" to support your position but you neglect to complete it or quote the one following which defines the part you read...that verse does say, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling ...and if you presume free will is true...and that we are required to work and will to attain salvation, it supports it...however the following words deny that...they say as you are well aware..:-) "for it is GOD which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Phil 2:12-13 As true believers we have been ordained to good works....and we are actively involved in working out our salvation...in other words we have a faith that works...but all of our actions are a direct result of Gods prior action...He saves...and works in us..and we respond.

German joy, I know sara well enough to know that she was not using the term backsliding here to mean, falling from grace, or losing salvation. And if you have read all the posts in this thread you probably know that too..Eternal security is a biblical doctrine, and entirely true. A person who is truly saved by the sovreign act of God cannot lose that salvation...on the other hand a person who believes themselves to be saved by an act of their own will certainly may appear to backslide and go into destruction. The reality is they were not saved in the first place.

blueheron32

[blueheron32]

Hi zarxs..

GermanJoy that is not necessarily true. People who believe in "once saved always saved" still believe in the unforgivable sin costing eternal life as well as intentionally teaching that God doesn't exist costing it as well. (struggling for words today)

Zarxs...I have no idea what you said right there..lol...but let me assure you..what ever it was...it creates no contradiction for the biblical doctrine of eternal security.. It still stands "secure"...:-)

blueheron32

[keepthepeace]

It also says in scripture that u can't serve two Gods so if you choose to sin then you are serving your master the devil and inly by grace does God intervine and correct and ultimately show the indivdual fault with there sin so in conclusion if you continue to sin knowing Gods wrath he will depart from you

[God Is Holy]

if a person backslides, there is a good chance that they were never truly saved in the first place

[Boo]

I do believe that it is possible to "backslide" or fall away from God and still be truly saved. I should know. I was saved at age 13, and wandered away in my college years. I believe that God never lets you go. He is always there even when you aren't. I fell in with the wrong crowd, and about 2 years ago ended up in a rehab for alcoholism. I was just about to be divorced, and God intervened. A flyer arrived at my door about a new church that was starting down the street. I went, and my soon-to-be ex-husband went too.
He got saved, I got sober, and the rest is truly incredible. I've been sober for almost 3 years now, and have been back in the fold worshiping Him and thanking Him that he never gives up on us.

[germanJoy]

Hello there comrade blueheron :-)

Many thanks for your warm welcome. I had indeed struggled to find my way to the new chatboard and finally could get through after stubbornly perservering :). Like everyone else in this room, it has been my desire to seek the truth that I may live and teach it to others. Unfortunately, I don't have so much time now to clarify myself of possible misunderstandings and miscommunications regarding the topic "freewill and predestination". I will get back to you on that as soon as I can.

Regarding your statement, 'In the bible "backsliding" is almost exclusively used to describe National Israels rebellious and stiffnecked condition. that is National Israel and never the Israel of God..ie the remnant that was always present within national Israel, saved by grace. Even though the Nation as a whole back slid..God always preserved a remnant of the faithful for himself..', I am afraid I need to "again" :) raise an argument that Israel is God's either as a nation, as a people, or as a remnant.

And we "the non-Israel believers" are also in danger of being cut-off just as they (the jews) were.
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches... for if God did not spare the natural brances, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His kindness; OTHERWISE YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF." (Romans 11:17, 18, 21-22)

All Israel will be saved (as a nation or as a people) because God's gift and calling are IRREVOCABLE. There is just a partial hardening of Israel. (Romans 11:25, 29)

I am an advocator of "predestination" and "freewill" (sounds illogical but I do not mind being illogical, I want to be scriptural). Since the Holy Scripture supports both, I am for it.

"For if we go on SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of the truth (this was the revelation knowledge of Christ), THERE NO LONGER REMAINS a sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:29

Therefore, we need to WORK OUT our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12)

I still have many scriptures to quote but I need to pick-up my daughter now. See you and God bless you, my dear brother.

:-)

[Theo]

no because the bible says whom the son shall make freee he shall be free indeed. in jude the bible says he is able to keep you from falling.

you are right we are free: but free from what? we are free from sin's hold on us right? well then how do you explain Romans 7:13-21, which says:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.

We may be christians and freed from the desire or need to sin, but because we are in this body, this imperfect mortal body, we will sin, because it is our nature. hard to accept, but it is true.

Love from above,
theo

[germanJoy]

you are right we are free: but free from what? we are free from sin's hold on us right? well then how do you explain Romans 7:13-21, which says:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.

We may be christians and freed from the desire or need to sin, but because we are in this body, this imperfect mortal body, we will sin, because it is our nature. hard to accept, but it is true.

Love from above,
theo

Hi Theo, you have a good point but the picture is not totally complete. It is one thing to sin (1 John 1:9) and another thing to "continually sinning" (Hebrews 10:26). It is one thing to have a "sinful nature" (Rom. 7:17) and another thing to master or overcome (Gen. 4:7) and be freed from it (Rom 7:25).

It is one thing to be on the flesh and another to be in the spirit. Romans 8:5-10 "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is DEATH, but the mind set on the Spirit is LIFE AND PEACE, because the mind set on the flesh is HOSTILE toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God for it is not even ABLE TO DO SO; and those who are in the flesh CANNOT PLEASE God. However, you are NOT IN THE FLESH but IN THE SPIRIT, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. And if Christ is in you, though the BODY is DEAD because of SIN, yet the SPIRIT is ALIVE because of righteousness.

Now the most important verse which many misses: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead DWELLS in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead WILL ALSO GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES through His Spirit who indwells you. So then brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh- for if your are living according to the flesh, YOU MUST DIE; but if by the Spirit you are PUTTING TO DEATH the DEEDS OF THE BODY, YOU WILL LIVE." We need to be dead to sin and be alive in the Spirit. Our case is not hopeless the moment we begin to walk in the Spirit in order not gratify the lusts of the flesh.

Conclusion, we are slaves of righteousness and not of sin therefore we have to be DEAD to sin but ALIVE to God in Christ Jesus. And we are not under law but under grace therefore sin should NOT MASTER OVER US. Romans 6:11-14

God bless you.

[Potters House]

Great topic that always causes debate. I think what we need to define here is the definition of the word 'Saved'. And if you are, can you lose that salvation?

[germanJoy]

Great topic that always causes debate. I think what we need to define here is the definition of the word 'Saved'. And if you are, can you lose that salvation?

"If you go on SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of the truth, THERE NO LONGER REMAINS a sacrifice for sins, BUT a certain TERRIFYING EXPECTATION OF JUDGMENT, and the FURY OF FIRE which will CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has SET ASIDE the Law of Moses DIES WITHOUT MERCY on the testimony of two or three witnesses. HOW MUCH SEVERER PUNISHMENT do you think he will observe WHO HAS TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT the SON OF GOD, and has regard as unclean THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT by which HE WAS SANCTIFIED, and has INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?" Hebrews 10:26-29

As "saved", we ought not to SIN WILLFULLY for by it, we can INSULT the Holy Spirit of grace and TRAMPLE UNDER FOOT the Son of God and by it make unclean the blood of the covenant which has sanctified us.

What Jesus did on the cross is THE BEST WORK AND SACRIFICE GOD HIMSELF EVER DID which is THE HOLIEST ACT ON EARTH, we cannot afford to be NEGLIGENT and above all CARELESS about it!

[Potters House]

Okay, but what is the definition of Saved?

[germanJoy]

Okay, but what is the definition of Saved?

The defiinition of "saved" is found in many parables told by Jesus. An example in Mattheew 25:14-28 (parable of talents). Read the last verses 29-32 "For to everyone who has shall more be given and he shall have an abundance but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. AND CAST OUT THE WORTHLESS SLAVE into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.. But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Notice these are all the same slaves but with different manner of handling the possessions of their master.

The wise slaves were saved, the lazy slaves not... The 5 wise virgins were saved but the 5 lazy virgins not... Both were supposed to be saved but only one really made it!

God bless.

[not4gotton]

Once a person has been filled with Gods Spirit they must keep following the Lord thru prayer, fasting and reading His word. IF a spirit filled person begans to neglect their salvation they will grow weak, and their fleshly nature will over take them and they will fall into sin....and IF they die in their sin they WILL be lost. BUT GOD is faithful and just to extend his mercy and see us thru times of weakness. God knowing the hearts of all people will have mercy on whom He will. No one knows the time that we have here, so we all need to stay in the saved condition. There will be no sin in the place that God has prepared for His people.... WE can backslide away from God...Adam and Eve did and the sin they commited seperated them from God..and they could no longer communicate with God...we communicate with God thru the spirit if we sin we have seperated ourselves from God...we must repent and be forgiven to be reconciled back to Him.
Yes it is possible to backslide..and if a person dies in their sin they will be lost. When we hear Him say "Well done my good and faithful servant enter in to the joy of the Lord" then ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED !
Until then we must pray,fast and read His word and keep oil in our lamps.
READ Matthew 25...There were 10 virgins or (10 Christians) all of them were pure...but five were wise and five were foolish... the five wise kept oil in their lamps (the oil is the Holy Ghost thats keeps us from sin) the five foolish were not allowed to enter into the marriage because they neglected their salvation.....yes they were pure but that wasnt good enough ! So you see just being a BELIEVER isn't enough ! We must have the Holy Ghost inside of us to give us light in this dark and sinful world. SURE there are a lot of believers out there, but only those with oil in their lamps when they die will be ETERNALLY SAVED..there will be A LOT of so called BELIEVERS turned away.

[germanJoy]

Once a person has been filled with Gods Spirit they must keep following the Lord thru prayer, fasting and reading His word. IF a spirit filled person begans to neglect their salvation they will grow weak, and their fleshly nature will over take them and they will fall into sin....and IF they die in their sin they WILL be lost. BUT GOD is faithful and just to extend his mercy and see us thru times of weakness. God knowing the hearts of all people will have mercy on whom He will. No one knows the time that we have here, so we all need to stay in the saved condition. There will be no sin in the place that God has prepared for His people.... WE can backslide away from God...Adam and Eve did and the sin they commited seperated them from God..and they could no longer communicate with God...we communicate with God thru the spirit if we sin we have seperated ourselves from God...we must repent and be forgiven to be reconciled back to Him.
Yes it is possible to backslide..and if a person dies in their sin they will be lost. When we hear Him say "Well done my good and faithful servant enter in to the joy of the Lord" then ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED !
Until then we must pray,fast and read His word and keep oil in our lamps.
READ Matthew 25...There were 10 virgins or (10 Christians) all of them were pure...but five were wise and five were foolish... the five wise kept oil in their lamps (the oil is the Holy Ghost thats keeps us from sin) the five foolish were not allowed to enter into the marriage because they neglected their salvation.....yes they were pure but that wasnt good enough ! So you see just being a BELIEVER isn't enough ! We must have the Holy Ghost inside of us to give us light in this dark and sinful world. SURE there are a lot of believers out there, but only those with oil in their lamps when they die will be ETERNALLY SAVED..there will be A LOT of so called BELIEVERS turned away.
Hi not4gotton, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED applies ONLY to the 5 prudent virgins but CLEARLY NOT to the 5 foolish virgins. All ten (10) are virgins waiting for the bridegroom (all are "saved" christians) but only five have oil (working out their salvation with the Holy Spirit) and the other five have no oil (not working out their salvation with the Holy Spirit).

Well done good and faithful servants are said to the WISE SERVANTS but the FOOLISH SERVANTS were thrown into the outer darkness. All servants were given TALENTS (the Holy Spirit and His works) but the foolish were lazy and were not working with the Holy Spirit.

[KLA3384]

I don' thtink I understand what you are saying. Do you mean that if we sin, knowing we are sinning, our sins are not forgiven and we are doomed to hell? I think at one time or another we ALL sin with complete knowledge what we are doing is wrong. After all, how could we even recognize that we were wrong if we sinned without intention? I know that is possible in some cases, but in most cases, we know when we are doing something wrong.

[jfreak]

Hey, Welcome!

[nemo]

Hey Sara interesting question you raise and one making me feel uncomfortable. I was once in a place with my relationship with God in which I felt I was in the throne room of God. I had an intercession gifting and since I began work full time I dont seem to go to that room any more. Is it a season or am I backsliding - I really miss the intimacy with God and even though I do read his word and pray a little does that mean I am a stray or backsliding?

[SirLaffalot aka CarltonRoss]

Never, ever, forget the element of free will-- God never takes away our free will-- we choose by our own volition to believe and serve Him and we choose of our own volition to stop serving Him-- serving God is voluntary and being genuinely saved doesn't take that away. Even those genuinely saved can choose by their own free will to reject God and no longer serve him.

[Donnie]

i believe people can backslide, buti believe God will convict themuntil they turn back to God. if you do backslide and don't have any conviction whatsoever then you are not truley saved. thats my opinion and i hope it helped.

[not4gotton]

I don't know where the saying "once saved always saved" came from but it did not come from Gods word. When we hear HIM say well done enter into the joy of the Lord, only then can we say "once saved always saved"!

[OneJoe]

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

[likeadeerpantsforwater]

Well yes. they can
CS Lewis, if you dont know, began his life as a Christian. when he was young his mother died and he became an athiest. (sp?) Then he met JRRTolkein (sp?) and he learnt of Gods goodness. But when his wife Joy died, yet again he strayed from the path. Luckily he came back to faith as he realised that he was wrong.

[OneJoe]

Well yes. they can
CS Lewis, if you dont know, began his life as a Christian. when he was young his mother died and he became an athiest. (sp?) Then he met JRRTolkein (sp?) and he learnt of Gods goodness. But when his wife Joy died, yet again he strayed from the path. Luckily he came back to faith as he realised that he was wrong.
And you absolutely know this person was saved how? Perhaps it is often an assumption a person is saved when in reality they were not. Even saved people fall short the Glory of God due to the sins of the flesh, but it doesn't mean they have strayed from God. To fall away obviously leaves us with no hope according to Heb ch.6. However, many may have never been saved as they assumed they were, nor had tasted of the gift of salvation. I often hear "well so and so was saved". We have no idea of knowing who is saved for certain. We only know them by their fruits and when you see someone who once appeared to be following God and suddenly for a time frame they are not, we are reminded that only God knows his truly saved children.

[germanJoy]

I don' thtink I understand what you are saying. Do you mean that if we sin, knowing we are sinning, our sins are not forgiven and we are doomed to hell? I think at one time or another we ALL sin with complete knowledge what we are doing is wrong. After all, how could we even recognize that we were wrong if we sinned without intention? I know that is possible in some cases, but in most cases, we know when we are doing something wrong.
Hi KLA3384 It is one thing to sin willfully and another to sin unwillfully. There is a difference between the two. To sin unwillfully (not knowing outright it is a sin) leads to repentance once convicted by the Holy Spirit. While to sin willfully (knowing it is a sin yet remain in that condition willfully) leads to an unrepentant callous heart that reacts not to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Once we get "to know" that we were wrong (recognizing sin in us), it is the Holy Spirit convicting us and by acknowledging the sin with repentance, God's forgiveness made possible by the blood of the Lamb is made available to us.

Once we already "know" that we were wrong and willfully remain in that sin refusing the conviction of the Holy Spirit and not repenting from it, then we are WILLFULLY SINNING.

[TheCowExpert]

I agree. I've backslidden plenty of times, but I know that I'm save and on my way to heaven!

[blueheron32]

notforgotten...

actually the question is....Is man saved saved as a result of his own action...ie..an act of his will..?? or, Is man saved by an act of Gods will.??

I would agree with you, that a salvation based on a decision of man, or a choice of man, is a salvation that will come and go with the whims and wishes of the same man. There will be no surety of that mans salvation because it is not based on anything but the shifting sand of mans nature.

On the other hand a salvation based upon the immutable will of the Almighty God, the crreator of all that is, he who quickeneth the dead and calleth those things which be not as though they were..Rom 4:17... and who assures those he saves that..Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.... A salvation based upon the solid rock of Jesus Christ and him crucified....will stand certain and sure, and will never fail....

you are quite correct..the statement once saved always saved is not in the bible...but the meaning of that statement and its foundation clearly arise from scripture. The problem is not the doctrine of eternal security, but rather your misunderstanding of the nature, and ground, of salvation.

blueheron32

[Godsent]

I believe the answer to be yes and here is why.

The Bible shows us many places where people not only sin for a moment but they wander from God. And these people are not the unsaved either these are people that were saved and held in high regard.

Now I say “stray” and who knows how long that may be, it is not our time frame but God’s! But some scripture shows us what will happen when we do “stray”

first, if we do not turn back on our own, God punishes us..........Hebrews 12:5-11(ESV)
5And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
"My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." 7It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated,
then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11For the moment all discipline
seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of
righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Now we see that if we do not turn back then he will take us home before our time ..........1 Cor 5:5 (ESV)
5you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord

AND ......................1 Cor 11:29-32 (ESV)
29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

AND...........1 John 5:15-17 (ESV)
f16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life--to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

AND 1 more :) .............2 Samuel 12:13-14(ESV)
13David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to
David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die."

NOW.............I will give Biblical examples of those who did backslide/stray..

Ex. 1.) In 2 Samuel Ch. 12 , the Prophet Nathan confronted King David about his sin with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband Uriah. It had been almost 9 months since King David had committed murder and adultery without repenting! Now if a truly saved person can not stray/backslide then some of the Psalms would have been written by an unbeliever.

Ex.2.) “Jonah was a prophet woowoo, but he never really got it, sad but true”
(Veggie tales) ANYWAY........
Jonah found In the book of............Jonah, he is a truly saved brother! But he CHOSE to disobey God and RUN and hop on a boat to Tarshish. Now because of his sin and disobedience God sent a storm and a “big Fish” to swallow him up and bring him to his senses. Now you can look at this story and say “yes he sinned, but that is not straying”. How LONG do you think this time frame was. Would this fall under a “moment” of sin or a “period” of sin??? HHHMMM

Ex.3.) King Solomon is referred to one of the wisest men to have ever lived. He wrote most of the book of Proverbs and the Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes and he Built the Temple in Jerusalem which the Lord blessed. BUT.......at the end of his life King Solomon committed idolatry and even built “high places” to the false gods of his day. So again we find here, If a true believe cannot backslide then these books were written by an unbeliever.

Ex.4.)Now we have .............Samson who we find in the book of judges, he
was a Nazirite and a judge over Israel for twenty years. Samson constantly
defiled his Nazarite separation through carnal appetites. Are you going to
go against Scripture and dare call Samson an unbeliever due to his many
sins? The Bible has this to say about Samson in the great hall of faith in
Hebrews chapter 11:"And what shall I more say? For the time would fail me
to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David
also, and Samuel, and of the prophets," Hebrews 11:32.

Now if you show me Hebrews chapter 6 to argue my post, here is my response in advance, I did not write this but I found it and it was what I would say anyway......:p well kinda.....

Hebrews 6:4-6 .................In fact, even though this passage talks about partaking of the Holy Spirit and tasting of the heavenly gift, it isn't talking about people who are saved. As Hebrews 6:9 says, "But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way." That is, even though the author speaks in this threatening way, he means his words to apply to those in the church who are not saved and who then despise Christ, not to those who are saved. Of those who are saved, he expects "better things ... things that accompany salvation." (reformedanswers.org)

So in conclusion I would say that The Lord allows us to choose to stray/backslide, but we will not enjoy it and he will eventually bring us back to him or take us home before our time ........

ANY questions/comments from the peanut gallery? :-D
The answer is yes...i have stray from God many times but i can assure u i still knew i was a child of God....our backsliding comes in trials that will test us and make us stronger so no fear if u stray from God ur still saved and God reaching out to u and simply saying "Child come back to me"

[Bikn4God]

Sara,

Excellent point about Jonah...


Does a real Christian wake up in the morning and say, " I'm going to sin against God today." ? No, I don't think a Christian sincerely wants to sin against God. But do we? Sure we do. We sin by the things we do....sins of "commission", and sin by what we do not do, sins of "omission". Are both sins? Sure they are. So yes, we sin.

Can circumstances and things in this world cloud the good judgement of a Christian? Yes. Can a Christian be deceived? You betcha. Is what is being done wrong? Yes. Is it a backslide? Well, I'm sure we could call it all sorts of things. One thing is for sure, we're not moving forward when we sin against the Lord. Correct?

Can we repent? Sure. Should we repent? Sure. Should we take for granted the grace God extends to us? No. The Apostle Paul said, "Should we sin, that grace may abound? God forbid!! " Good answer, huh? I like Paul.

We're children of God. God is our Father. And as any Father would do when His children act up, there are consequences. Does He love us less? No. Do you disown and hate your children when they act up? Of course not. Then why expect any less from a loving and merciful God?

God Bless,

CJ
SFFS

[Godsent]

Sara,

Excellent point about Jonah...


Does a real Christian wake up in the morning and say, " I'm going to sin against God today." ? No, I don't think a Christian sincerely wants to sin against God. But do we? Sure we do. We sin by the things we do....sins of "commission", and sin by what we do not do, sins of "omission". Are both sins? Sure they are. So yes, we sin.

Can circumstances and things in this world cloud the good judgement of a Christian? Yes. Can a Christian be deceived? You betcha. Is what is being done wrong? Yes. Is it a backslide? Well, I'm sure we could call it all sorts of things. One thing is for sure, we're not moving forward when we sin against the Lord. Correct?

Can we repent? Sure. Should we repent? Sure. Should we take for granted the grace God extends to us? No. The Apostle Paul said, "Should we sin, that grace may abound? God forbid!! " Good answer, huh? I like Paul.

We're children of God. God is our Father. And as any Father would do when His children act up, there are consequences. Does He love us less? No. Do you disown and hate your children when they act up? Of course not. Then why expect any less from a loving and merciful God?

God Bless,

CJ
SFFS
Amen to that bikin amen...we seem to agree on a lot of topics...if u have yahoo please add me at jkgameboy@yahoo.com my asl is 19/m/nc.