Is Christmas Christian?

[jeps901]

Is Christmas endorsed by the Word of God? The scriptures says that we should worship Him in spirit and truth. With that being said, the truth is Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. We should not lie to our children about fictional charecters (Santa Clause). The most important fact is God the father said that we should not name his name among the pagans.

Dec. 25th is the birthday of Mithra (sun god/pagan worship) Please look it up. Why do we as the Church celebrate what is totally man/pagan tradition and neglect the days established by the Lord and kept by the disciples.

My family and I do not keep Christmas and we are not JW's. We are Born again beleivers and after looking at the Word of God we realize that keeping Christmas is no different that keeping Halloween. One example is Jeremiah 10 speaks to the pagan traditions of tree decorations, and the list goes on.

[Loonieburger]

There's no mention of Christmas in the Bible, no, but where's the harm in it? There's no mention of Christian rock concerts in the Bible either, but I'd have no problem attending one (now that the music's getting better and less plagarized, anyway ;) )

Just because Christianity became the dominant religion in an area, and with their growing influence they chose to replace pagan feasts or celebrations with a Christian message, this is no reason to cancel a celebration. Christians the world over are not worshipping Mithra on Dec. 25th. Christians are not accidentally worshipping Mithra due to their ignorance of the origin of the day.

So long as we, as Christians, are not actually worshipping the day or putting gifts (giving or receiving) or even 'the spirit of (the) holiday/season/Christmas' ahead of worshipping Christ, why should there be an issue?

[tahana]

There's no mention of Christmas in the Bible, no, but where's the harm in it? There's no mention of Christian rock concerts in the Bible either, but I'd have no problem attending one (now that the music's getting better and less plagarized, anyway ;) )

Just because Christianity became the dominant religion in an area, and with their growing influence they chose to replace pagan feasts or celebrations with a Christian message, this is no reason to cancel a celebration. Christians the world over are not worshipping Mithra on Dec. 25th. Christians are not accidentally worshipping Mithra due to their ignorance of the origin of the day.

So long as we, as Christians, are not actually worshipping the day or putting gifts (giving or receiving) or even 'the spirit of (the) holiday/season/Christmas' ahead of worshipping Christ, why should there be an issue?

There is of course no mention of christmas in the bible because it was invented/instituted well after it was written , by men and their traditions.There is definitly mention of the gods associated with this event as well as easter. Each time they are not put in a favourable light from God the Father's view. Any celebration could be used with Christs' name slapped on it as long as we "aren't actually worshipping the day" if this was the case. Furthermore such celebrations have superceded the holy days God himself introduced (i.e. passover,feast of tabernacles etc and as far as I have read Jesus and the apostles kept them all !) which is not a good look for people professing to do what their so called lord did as an example for us to follow. Is it not our duty to be obedient in order to show our love to God the Father and his only begotten son and our saviour Jesus?

[Chaplain Bob]

Anyone who has been a follower of the Lord Jesus for any length of time knows Jesus was not born on December 25th. They also know that Christmas is not "authorized" by Scripture. So you're not telling us anything we don't already know. But neither is it prohibited. I have never met a Believer who "worships" Christmas trees or Santa. And those who choose to celebrate Christmas are certainly not celebrating the pagan holiday from which Christmas was adapted.

Rather than chastizing Christians for celebrating what you believe to be an unscriptural holiday why don't you concentrate on sharing you faith with those who are lost as do many Believers who celebrate the day and season.

[Ken]

They also know that Christmas is not "authorized" by Scripture. So you're not telling us anything we don't already know. But neither is it prohibited. I have never met a Believer who "worships" Christmas trees or Santa. And those who choose to celebrate Christmas are certainly not celebrating the pagan holiday from which Christmas was adapted.Do you think it’s OK for those claiming to be Christian to lie to their children and tell them that a fat man in the red suit sees everything they do both good and bad and will punish them if they do bad, but will reward them for doing good? Do you think it’s OK to have those claiming to be Christian to tell their kids this fat man in the red suit will use magic to make reindeer fly and cast a spell on them when he appears to punish, or reward them for their behavior? Do you think the pagan practice of cutting the tree down and bringing it in your home and decorating it with gold and silver is ok now because you claim you are not worshiping it? Is it just admiration, or a form of worship when you place presents under the tree and stand around taking pictures with the tree? What has changed from the pagan holiday to the Catholic Christmass holiday? Does the lie that Jesus was born at the time of this pagan holiday make all the other evil that goes with it any less evil.?

Rather than chastizing Christians for celebrating what you believe to be an unscriptural holiday why don't you concentrate on sharing you faith with those who are lost as do many Believers who celebrate the day and season.Christians should expose evil, so true Christians can repent and turn from their evil ways. Christians should stop lying to their Children and telling them that Satan Claus will reward them for doing good. You can’t call evil good and good evil if you’re a true Christian. The lie that Jesus was born during this pagan festival can not stop it from being just as evil as it ever was.

1 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel; 2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: For one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: They must needs be borne, because they can not go. Be not afraid of them; for they can not do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

[Chaplain Bob]

Do you think it’s OK for those claiming to be Christian to lie to their children and tell them that a fat man in the red suit sees everything they do both good and bad and will punish them if they do bad, but will reward them for doing good? Do you think it’s OK to have those claiming to be Christian to tell their kids this fat man in the red suit will use magic to make reindeer fly and cast a spell on them when he appears to punish, or reward them for their behavior? Do you think the pagan practice of cutting the tree down and bringing it in your home and decorating it with gold and silver is ok now because you claim you are not worshiping it? Is it just admiration, or a form of worship when you place presents under the tree and stand around taking pictures with the tree? What has changed from the pagan holiday to the Catholic Christmass holiday? Does the lie that Jesus was born at the time of this pagan holiday make all the other evil that goes with it any less evil.?

Christians should expose evil, so true Christians can repent and turn from their evil ways. Christians should stop lying to their Children and telling them that Satan Claus will reward them for doing good. You can’t call evil good and good evil if you’re a true Christian. The lie that Jesus was born during this pagan festival can not stop it from being just as evil as it ever was.


I've been a follower of Jesus since 1948 and been in more churches than I can count. But I've never met a Believer who "...lies..." to his children regarding Santa. The fact that YOU say decorating one's home with a tree is a form of worship does not make it so. As for Jesus birthday it's all symbolic. We don't know exactly when Jesus rose from the dead either. And much of what goes on in a church is not "...authorized..." by the Bible either. Your inference that those who celebrate Christmas are not "...true Christians..." is ludicrous. I refer you back to my first post.

[Ken]

In your first post you’re defending Christmass because you say it’s not prohibited by scripture. I ask you several questions that you didn’t answer. Now you say that you don’t know any believers that lie to their children regarding santa/satan clause. Does that mean they keep santa out of christmass, or is that just twisting the truth meaning that santa is not really a lie?

You say that because I say decorating one’s home with a tree is a form of worship does not make it so. Is that twisting the truth, or did you just misread my message? I was asking you what you believed. We know this was a pagan holiday that the Catholics embraced in an effort to bring the pagans into Catholicism. I posted scriptures in my first message that start with “Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen” and goes on to describe what has now become known as the Chrismass tree.

Now as far as how long you’ve claimed to be Christian and how many churches you say you’ve been to I’m not impressed. How many churches you’ve been to etc. has nothing to do with your level of knowledge on the subject and it don’t make you a Christian. If you’re telling me that in all these years you’ve been going to all these different churches you’ve never heard anyone telling their kids about the fictional character santa, then I would have a very hard time believing you.

You said I made inference that those who celebrate Christmass are not true Christians, but that is not true. What I said is “Christians should expose evil, so true Christians can repent and turn from their evil ways. I also said that you can’t call evil good and good evil if you’re a true Christian. It’s interesting in your first post you say “Anyone who has been a follower of the Lord Jesus for any length of time knows Jesus was not born on December 25th.” What you’re saying is you know it’s not true, but it don’t matter to you. I believe the truth matters to Christians.

I can come closer to understanding a Christian that has been deceived and celebrates this pagan holiday than I can someone claiming to be Christian that understands the pagan roots and just don’t care. At least you did post one thing I could agree with you on when you said much of what goes on in a church is not authorized by the Bible. Just goes to show there are many calling themselves “churches” that are not Christian.

[blueheron32]

Hear is an example of what God thinks about people who choose to worship him, in a way God has not authorized...

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Lev 10:3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.
Lev 10:4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.
Lev 10:5 So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said.
Lev 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.
Lev 10:7 And ye shall not go out from the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: for the anointing oil of the LORD is upon you. And they did according to the word of Moses.
Lev 10:8 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Lev 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
Lev 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

The Lord our God is a Holy God, and a Jealous God. Do you think he will leave unpunished one who would teach children lies???

Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

blue

[Steve777]

I celebrate Jesus equally the rest of the 364 days, not just December 25th.

The people who label the Christmas as the day Jesus was born are the same "Christians" who plant themselves in a church every Sunday thinking that is enough to please God.

[genesisman]

This annual debate always amazes me. The birth of our Savior (He indeed was born and had to be born in order to die, rise again, and ascend into Heaven so He can come back again) is proclaimed more in the time between Thanksgiving and Dec. 25th to more people around the world then at any other time of the year. There is never a time during the year that people are more open to God’s love. It is a grieving time for widows, orphans, homeless, soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, missionaries away from home, those in prison, and others. It is a time of reminding all of the hope offered by God through His Son Jesus. And this debate rages among Christians. I do not understand it.

Paul was in prison and it was reported to him that there were those proclaiming the name of Christ to keep him locked up. Paul’s response?

Phil 1:13 – 18 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other [places];
And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

If you don’t want to celebrate Christmas, then don’t, but don’t try to lay a major guilt trip on us who do. It is not your place, but if you insist on continuing – be sure to include … Easter, the easter bunny, the tooth fairly, Cinderella, the wizard of oz, lord of the rings, and any other stories that hint of any untruth or magic.

If you want to debate Halloween, then you have something that has promotes evil like “hell night” in Detroit.

[guiding light]

Christmas is a pagan festival that has been hijacked by christianity. This was done in order to demonise paganism and facilitate the spread of christianity. Just as april fools day was the pagan new year, the introduction of the christian calander was followed by a 'new' new year date: the 1st of january. Thereafter, the 1st of april (the pagan new year) was named april fools day in order to ridicule paganism and usher in christianity.

[guido]

christ-MASS isn't Christian or Biblical (KJV) as neither is pagan easter

[Ken]

This annual debate always amazes me.How could it amaze you when Christians debate why other Christians would celebrate a pagan holiday in the name of Christ?

The birth of our Savior (He indeed was born and had to be born in order to die, rise again, and ascend into Heaven so He can come back again) is proclaimed more in the time between Thanksgiving and Dec. 25th to more people around the world then at any other time of the year.Do you really believe this? We see multiple religions celebrating christmas. The pagans still celebrate this holiday just as they always have and it’s the same as Christians do for the most part. I work with some very unchristian people that have no problem celebrating christmas. I also pass a bar every day that has their pagan tree in the window for all to see. Maybe they want people to stop in so they can proclaim Jesus’s birthday? Christmas to them is just an excuse to get drunk and be heathens.

There is never a time during the year that people are more open to God’s love. It is a grieving time for widows, orphans, homeless, soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, missionaries away from home, those in prison, and others. It is a time of reminding all of the hope offered by God through His Son Jesus. And this debate rages among Christians. I do not understand it. What is your proof that this time of year people are more open to God’s love? I see nothing but stressed out people being overwhelmed by it all. I was at a walmart store yesterday and I seen very few smiling faces shopping. I have a friend that was in a store the day after thanksgiving when two elderly ladies got in a fight and starting hitting each other with things. News stories all around the country showed the stressed out masses fighting and carrying on the day after thanksgiving. Seems the only love this time of year is the love of money that the greedy merchants have.

If you don’t want to celebrate Christmas, then don’t, but don’t try to lay a major guilt trip on us who do. It is not your place, but if you insist on continuing – be sure to include … Easter, the easter bunny, the tooth fairly, Cinderella, the wizard of oz, lord of the rings, and any other stories that hint of any untruth or magic.Make you feel guilty? How could you feel guilty if something is clearly Christian? Do you feel guilty when you know what you are doing is right? Do you feel guilty when you pray? Do you feel guilty when you worship God? Do you feel guilty when you proclaim Jesus? You only feel guilty when you know deep down inside that what you’re doing is wrong. When you take a tree and put it in your home and decorate it with gold and silver you are doing what the bible clearly says not to do. How can you claim to be doing as the heathen in the name of Jesus? Christmas is nothing more than a fairy tail just like the others you have named.

There is no record of early Christians celebrating this pagan holiday because they didn’t. It was illegal in many Christian countries like America and you were not considered Christian if you celebrated it. Now we have a new religion where people can decide if they want to chose God, what terms they will serve Him on and even how they will worship Him. As for my family and I, we will not bow down to the pagan tree and lie to our children putting santa in place of Jesus.

[kennar]

Christmas used to be one of the happiest times of the year for me and I have so many wonderful memories of growing up and sharing them with my family. But when I became a follower of the Lord and began to study the bible, my committment to always be a pursuer of the truth lead me to look beyond the conformities of todays modern world and drop the whole LIE of Chrismas.

I do not judge any of you who have decided to carry on with it, but I am sad for many of you who choose to remain ignorant, and I also urge you all to at least seek the TRUTH as Gods word states and as history also testifies to

Anyone can find the truth if they really want to, it's all there for anyone to grasp....but so too is the deceitfulness of the enemy....and so too is the choice God has given mankind, the choice to believe and obey......or not! Choice is our God given right and it is what sets us apart from every other creation. It is saddening to see such a gift as this to be treated with such mediocricy in so many aspects.

I, like some others, CHOOSE to follow the way of the truth and sometimes thats hard. My family who were once accustomed to beautiful xmas trees, lots of presents and a photo every year with Santa, have had to adjust to a life without that. My youngest daughter finds it hard to understand why we don't light up our home anymore but I just continue to explain to her ever gently that we found the truth, we didn't know it before but now that we do, we have to be true to the Lords teachings and learn to live our lives the way he wants us to - and he doesn't want us to live lives of lies!

My gosh, even I miss much of the tradition, but I am comforted by the fact that I am on a continual journey of obedience to the Lord and I will always endeavour to live my life how HE wants me to! My journey to the throne is mine and yours is yours, I choose the path less travelled, I choose to stand apart......I choose to live life in truth and without the LIE OF CHRISTMAS!!!

[DanishPastry]

I agree with you whole heartedly. The sad thing is that so many see no harm in observing a holiday originally celebrated for the birth of the sun god nor in the revelry of New Years which is in honor of Bacchus the god of drunkenness and revelry. There is a very specific place in the Bible where God Himself says "DO NOT worship Me in the ways that the pagans worship their gods because I hate what they do." When you have God Himself telling you NOT to do it how can you continue to do it? (Not you of course but those who observe the holidays.)
When someone asks "Where's the harm?" they don't realize that our Lord and Savior had to die for our sins which INCLUDES observance of pagan festivals. If God had not specifically said "DON'T DO IT!" then there would be no harm. We as followers of Christ should strive to stop doing those things that required the sacrifice as Paul said "Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound? GOD FORBID!"
May God bless you in your search for truth.

[Ken]

To sum up the argument for celebrating Christmas “I can do my own thing and you can’t prove to my satisfaction that the bible says not to.” It's interesting to note that the holiday and rituals now known as Christmas existed before Jesus was born and at this same time of year. Nothing major has changed in the way it’s celebrated. Christians that celebrate Christmas have not replaced, or destroyed paganism, but have adopted it.

Living in the United States in this day and age it’s not illegal to celebrate this pagan holiday the way it was in early America. We can thank God for one Christmas celebration that may have helped Washington turn the tide in favor of the colonial forces in 1776 when the heathens were drunk and passed out. :-)

http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets2/landsnurs/dec90pr3.html

[Warrior4Truth]

Hey Danish could you happen to provide that bible verse for me. The one that says, "Don't worship Me in the ways that the pagans worship their gods because I hate what they do." Thanks God bless.

[DanishPastry]

Hello Warrior!

The verse is Deuteronomy 12:30,31. Just in case there is a problem with the word "serve" being used as worship in my paraphrase the Israelites were instructed to serve and worship only God. The word for serve also means "worshipper" according to Strongs. Let me know what you think.

[Warrior4Truth]

Hey Danish!

Thanks for providing me and everyone else present with the bible verse you spoke of. Just wanted to know where it was so I could do some studying on it. Thanks again. God bless!

[genesisman]

I was reading John 17:5 this morning and the request of Jesus overwhelmed me. To think of what He had with the Father before He came to earth, as His Son, is mind boggling to me to say the least. There are so many things involved in His birth that I take for granted.

The first thing I thought of was His stepping out of timelessness into time. From always being in the present with no past or future to a dimension of time with both. The minute He was born He began to age and die. Marking off seconds to an appointment on Calvary.

The second thing I thought of was His giving up a spiritual body that knew no pain, hunger, illness and taking on a physical body that would experience all that I do. Completely identifying Himself with me in every way.

The third thing I thought of was His giving up His total authority over everything and accepting the vulnerability of a baby totally dependent on His mother for food, love, acceptance and all the things a baby needs. Messy diapers.

The fourth thing I thought of was His total dependence on Joseph’s obedience when the angel told him to take Jesus and Mary to Egypt when Herod ordered all baby boys two years and under to be put to death in his jealousy of another King.

The fifth thing I thought of was His growing up in a family of brothers and sisters. Learning manners and how to share. Maybe even sharing a bed. Going to school. Attending the synagogue. Reading and memorizing the Word that He Himself inspired. Doing homework. Having a cold or the flu. Stomach cramps. Diarrhea.

The sixth thing I thought about was His learning the carpenter’s trade from Joseph. Wearing blisters on his hands from sawing wood. Getting splinters in his hands and sawdust in His eyes. Having to wash the dirt from his body and putting on clean clothes. Being tired and needing sleep.

The seventh thing I thought of was His experiencing all the emotions I have felt in my life. Maybe being teased or ridiculed by school mates. Being scolded or punished by his parents. Experiencing the death of a friend or loved one. Having a best friend. Experiencing a pretty girl’s smile. Blushing.

The eighth thing I thought of was a twelve year old boy being totally aware of His purpose when Mary and Joseph found Him after three days teaching the elders in the temple and He told them that He must be about His Father’s business. Knowing He would be living a short life and dying a horrible death.

The ninth thing I thought of was He declaring Himself as the expected Messiah in the synagogue at the age of thirty. Being rejected by His brothers and sisters and the people of His home town so He could not do miracles there because of their lack of faith. Being baptized. Being led into the desert by The Holy Spirit to be tempted face to face by the devil after fasting for 40 days and nights. The rejection of the religious leaders and teachers. The attributing of His miracles to the devil. The praise of the people on Psalm Sunday and then the railing and ridiculing from the same people as He hung on the cross the following Friday. All the physical pain and suffering the days between. Being under such pressure in the Garden of Eden that He sweat drops of blood (who can imagine that much pressure). The emotional and spiritual struggle when He asked The Father three times to let all of this pass from Him, but then totally submitting and saying “Thy will be done” while those closest to Him slept. Being betrayed by two of His inner circle. Being beaten, slapped, spit upon, and laughed at while going through several trials in one night. Witnesses lying about Him. Having a murderer chosen for freedom over Him. Having a crown of twisted thorny vines pressed deep into his head. Being physically exhausted and having to carry a cross and falling three times under its weight. Stripped naked in front of a crowd that included His mother and siblings. Having His hands and feet nailed to a cross. Being placed between two thieves of which one ridiculed Him. Being offered vinegar to drink when He was thirsty. In the midst of all of this asking His Father to forgive them. Asking that His mother be taken care of. Experiencing the weight of every sin that ever had been committed, was being committed that very minute, or ever would be committed. Experiencing the emotional and spiritual pain of His Father turning His back on Him while he bore that weight. Having a spear thrust in His side. Dying a physical death. Dying a spiritual death by going to Hell before presenting Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice to His Father as full and complete payment for our sins.

In total – being born again backwards – from a place of perfection and peace with The Father into a world of sin.

All of this for us. Giving us the opportunity to accept Him as our Savior -- His payment for our sins -- by believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead and confessing Him with our mouth that He is Savior.

What a Savior!

And we argue over what day we celebrate his birthday?

[blueheron32]

genesisman...

perhaps the question is, does God want us to celebrate his birth on a certainday? If so, why did he not reveal the day of his Sons birth? If God has not appointed a certain day, when he very well could have, who is man to appoint a certain day?

Let every day, be a day of celebration that the saviour has come into the world.

blue

[FreetoloveGod aka DanV]

We acknowledge Jesus Christ "everyday" by prayer and thanksgiving.

Some do it by going to a building for worship once, twice or more times a week all year long.

If it were not for the birth and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there would be nothing to acknowledge at any time of the year and we would all still be lost with no hope for today or eternity.

There are those who have decided to make a special recognition of Jesus Christs' birth at this time of the year and call it Christmas as well as His Resurrection and call it Easter.

There are others who have decided to acknowledge neither because the Bible does not specifically direct them to.

A Blessed Christmas, acknowledged or not, and a Healthy and Prosperous New Year to one and all is my prayer.

FreetoloveGod

[SealedEternal]

The day that is now known as christmass was founded in the Babylonian mystery religions for the worship of the sun which was representative of Lucifer whose name means "the light bearer." In paganism, Lucifer is the hero of the plot because he enlightened mankind with knowledge at the garden of Eden.

The occultists held the winter solstice as one of their holy days because it represented the death and rebirth of the sun god Lucifer. When the Emperor Constantine of Rome (an adept in pagan mystery religions) supposedly converted to "Christianity" he incorporated the pagan rituals and holy days but added a Christian veneer, thus founding a hybrid of the two.

This is what much of so-called "Christendom" today is built upon. It is satanism in disguise.

SealedEternal

[bukeye2745]

My family and most of my church also do not celebrate any holidays. We also are not JW's. I don't judge people that do. I kept them most of my life but I don't feel comfortable with it anymore.

[kcocluv]

was there a christmas tree with presents in the stable where The Virgin Mary gave birth to Christ Our Lord? I think not! I believe as Christians we should stay focused on God and His word not buy into the commercialness of christmas.

[sue777]

Is Christmas endorsed by the Word of God? The scriptures says that we should worship Him in spirit and truth. With that being said, the truth is Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. We should not lie to our children about fictional charecters (Santa Clause). The most important fact is God the father said that we should not name his name among the pagans.

Dec. 25th is the birthday of Mithra (sun god/pagan worship) Please look it up. Why do we as the Church celebrate what is totally man/pagan tradition and neglect the days established by the Lord and kept by the disciples.

My family and I do not keep Christmas and we are not JW's. We are Born again beleivers and after looking at the Word of God we realize that keeping Christmas is no different that keeping Halloween. One example is Jeremiah 10 speaks to the pagan traditions of tree decorations, and the list goes on.
I agree with jeps901

[Servant17]

Is Christmas endorsed by the Word of God? The scriptures says that we should worship Him in spirit and truth. With that being said, the truth is Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. We should not lie to our children about fictional charecters (Santa Clause). The most important fact is God the father said that we should not name his name among the pagans.

Dec. 25th is the birthday of Mithra (sun god/pagan worship) Please look it up. Why do we as the Church celebrate what is totally man/pagan tradition and neglect the days established by the Lord and kept by the disciples.

My family and I do not keep Christmas and we are not JW's. We are Born again beleivers and after looking at the Word of God we realize that keeping Christmas is no different that keeping Halloween. One example is Jeremiah 10 speaks to the pagan traditions of tree decorations, and the list goes on.

Very Boldly stated jeps901,
I agree with you. Perhaps you would be interested in visiting my ministry's website?

-Servant

[Conscience]

No,the apostles were commanded to keep in memory the death and ressurection of Christ not his birth (1Cor.11:24).

Conscience

[roysim]

Hi there,

I fully agreed with what you have said, and I understand it originated from the Roman catholic dogma and not a christian worship, (see how they superseded the truth Son of God to their pagan sun god.)

From Lord Jesus own word, Matthew 15 : 7-9.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their month, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

God bless you for keeping up the faith that once delivered to the saints, may God be with you.

[Faith]

...Christians should stop lying to their Children and telling them that Satan Claus will reward them for doing good...

I got a good laugh out of that line!

I have a lot of thinking/praying to do.

[LonelyWife]

A friend of my husband's gave him a Christian article regarding the pagan traditions behind the Christmas tree and ever since then, he has been "against" Christmas. I do understand what he is saying, and I cannot deny that Christmas is not biblical in any way, but my flesh really misses the tradition and especially that special time that is shared with family. If and when we have a family of our own, we will most likely not have a Christmas tree, but we might give gifts or have a special dinner. It just depends on what my husband decides. It's not so important to me that I'll have a problem submitting to him. He is not attached to the tradition in the flesh, since he grew up in rural Mexico with a family that didn't really celebrate Christmas or make a big deal out of any holiday.

[Faith]

Very Boldly stated jeps901,
I agree with you. Perhaps you would be interested in visiting my ministry's website?

-Servant

Which website?

[jargon5000]

There is a lot of things that have been taught to us that is not biblical; christmas is one of them.

Christmas is permeated with paganism. Go do some research!

[RoMan838]

genesisman...

perhaps the question is, does God want us to celebrate his birth on a certainday? If so, why did he not reveal the day of his Sons birth? If God has not appointed a certain day, when he very well could have, who is man to appoint a certain day?

Let every day, be a day of celebration that the saviour has come into the world.

blue

Let every day, be a day of celebration that the saviour has come into the world.

[love-unseen-unspoken-love]

In my mind I would have to say it is. Its a time we have set aside to worship God and thank him for comming down as a baby to die on a cross for us. If you think about why is the world not saying christmas any more they say xmas or happy holidays

[Ken]

In my mind I would have to say it is. Its a time we have set aside to worship God and thank him for comming down as a baby to die on a cross for us.Wrong! Are you getting Thanksgiving mixed up with this pagan holiday? Christmass has nothing to do with God, or Jesus. It was a pagan holiday that the Catholics embraced and then tried to highjack the meaning of, but they did not change the way it was celebrated.

If you think about why is the world not saying christmas any more they say xmas or happy holidaysMaybe a better question is why would a Christian mix paganism and Christianity? I find it much less offensive to hear the pagan tree called a holiday tree than a christmass tree. The foundation of this holiday is pagan and it will always be the same pagan holiday it’s been since before Jesus’s birth. Those saying happy holiday are more honest than those saying merry christmass. If you want to celebrate this pagan holiday do it, but don’t say it has anything to do with Jesus.

[tryintofarm]

Christmas has pagan origins.

TTF

[lil_ridin_hood]

I believe it is a symbol for something magnificient. Baby Jesus! Sure, the facts of Him being born Dec. 25 is not correct but it's the meaning. Does it matter what day? The biggest part of Christmas is baby Jesus. It is literally the start of salvation. We need to be glad for that. Santa also contributes to the gift of giving, or unselfishness. That is something God wants us to do. Santa is merely a fun way or spirit to get us into it. As the years go on, this Christian holiday begins to grow sparse and we need to remind the world. This is the holiday for your kids and nonbelievers to really get into depth of Jesus and his coming. Look at Easter, it is not the day of the crucifiction and yes there is a UNREAL easter bunny, but yet, we look on that holiday as so high. Christmas should be right around high. The birth and death of Jesus was the 33 years the world was going to be saved forever. So, it is Christian, it has a meaning, but now, it is to not forget the meaning. I tell you, always cherish the little children bible stories, they are the base of these holidays. Along with thanksgiving. So, think about that and don't turn to others to verify what is Christian or not, turn to what God said, in the Bible. Look up his birth in Matthew.


Kayla-14 years old

[elect lady]

No, Christmas, is the Christ-mass. I do not celebrate mass, the continual offering of the body of Christ in wafer form, I am not a Catholic. Jesus Christ died once and accomplished salvation for the elect.

Saturnalia was renamed Christmas. In Saturnalia, December 25th is honored as the birthday of the Unconquered Sun. Jesus Christ was never in Christmas. Saturnalia is pagan worship and Christmas is the renaming of that worship of the Sun. It is also worship of Baal in the Bible. Israel was chastened for worshipping Baal and Ashteroth and if you study, Baal, Ashteroth, and Tammuz with Google you will quickly learn how much abomination is prized as being honorable to God in Christianity today. Luke 16:15 ...... for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. I used to celebrate Christmas, I put this post here that your understanding may be opened to the truth. A person has to learn what poison is so they will not ingest it.

Spend some time, Christians, on Google and educate yourself. Look up Yule, Saturnalia, Mithra, origins of Christmas customs and see if you still want to be involved with it. Look up Baal, Asteroth, Tammuz. These are names in the Old Testament and all 3 names have influenced modern Christianity, but are false gods.

Many Christians feel threatened that businesses are no longer allowing employees to say, "Merry Christmas." Yes, the government is trying to take Christ out of everything, but He was not in Christmas to begin with. You can find out a lot about Christmas customs from wiccan sites, don't you think that is odd? Wiccan is witchcraft and paganism. The fact is that Christmas is pagan and Christians join in and are offended if you speak against Christmas.

Have you ever considered that on December 25th, just about every church will have a sermon on the incarnation (birth) of Christ. Is that of the Holy Spirit, or dictated by the Christmas season? Yes, Jesus did come to this Earth and took on flesh as a baby in the virgin Mary's womb. Yet, Jesus is eternal, He is self-existent and was in the beginning before creation. As a man, He had a birthdate, but His birth date is not recorded in the Bible, neither is the day of His death which wouldn't change like the moveable day of Easter Sunday.

Why do we have a Christmas tree in the house?
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Do you think shepherds would be abiding in the field in the winter? You could not sleep in a tent and keep watch over sheep.
Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. If there had been snow or low temperatures, the shepherds would have gotten hypothermia, so would Mary, giving birth in the cold. Think about it.

Where does it say the wise men visited Jesus at the manager?
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

Where does the Bible say there were 3 wise men? It says men in the plural but the number of them is not given.

Where is it recorded in the Bible that the diciples had yearly celebrations of Christ's birth; or that they presented gifts to each other?
Here is where gift-giving is shown in the Bible, when the two witnesses of God are killed in the book of Revelation: Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Now, how about Santa Claus. Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds Do we discipline our children for lying, then tell them that there is a Santa Claus?

Doesn't Santa have the attributes of God? He is all-knowing, all-seeing:

He knows when you are sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.

He makes reindeer to fly when God gave them legs so they could run . Santa Claus can visit every house in the world in one night and leave toys and gifts. Santa can go down a chimney with a big sack of toys and not get stuck in the chimney. He manages to get into houses with the doors and windows closed and locked.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. I think this Scripture is pertinent for our day.

[jaysee]

Thx, you have saved me from quoting most of what you have;)
Just to add; Hercules birthday was 25th dec a sun God.
The only thing resembling anything to do with Jesus near that date, is when a number of wise men (not 3) came to Mary & Joseph's house,when Jesus was at least 2 years old!! Not a baby in a manger, in a stable!!
You can blame St.Francis of Asissi for bringing the false nativity to carry on the deception.
Talking of deception,well thats where this all started, tree god worship with Eve in the garden, right up til Emperor Constantine brought in 'The Edict of Toleration' in 312AD, as he wanted everyone to tolerate one another. Thats Christians & tree & sun god worshippers, so to keep everyone happy he compromised & where in pictures you see halo behind the 'apparent' saints heads, well that kept the sun worshippers happy & everyone got along.
Much like today really here in the UK, we have Prince Charles as 'Defender of all Faiths', wow how cosy & corrupt (just like that snake in the garden:m ).
Followed closely by council of Nicea in 325AD, you can thank Constantine for the world fiasco that is; (drum roll) the catholic church!!!
I will close by being astounded at nearly 50% of SO CALLED Christians here who think Christ mass is Christian!!!:LOL

God bless Gods Elect

Jaysee

;)

[SpiritLedEd]

Is Christmas endorsed by the Word of God? The scriptures says that we should worship Him in spirit and truth. With that being said, the truth is Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. We should not lie to our children about fictional charecters (Santa Clause). The most important fact is God the father said that we should not name his name among the pagans.

Dec. 25th is the birthday of Mithra (sun god/pagan worship) Please look it up. Why do we as the Church celebrate what is totally man/pagan tradition and neglect the days established by the Lord and kept by the disciples.

My family and I do not keep Christmas and we are not JW's. We are Born again beleivers and after looking at the Word of God we realize that keeping Christmas is no different that keeping Halloween. One example is Jeremiah 10 speaks to the pagan traditions of tree decorations, and the list goes on.



It's kind of a loaded question since it depends on how you define the word. If you define "Christian" only as being something mandated or confirmed by the New Testament, then it isn't "Christian". But, if you see "Christian" in the broader sense of all practices and things related to being followers of Christ, Christmas most assuredly qualifies as Christian.

First century Christians came out of cultures wherein all socio-economic functions revolved around pagan practices. It seems only natural then that first century believers had to work within the structure of the society in which they lived.

I believe that's why believers newly delivered from paganism chose the birthday of the pagan sun god they had once worshipped as the day to honor the birth of The Son of God.

SpiritLedEd

[Teegz]

When trying to understand trivial points concerning Christian faith and God, it is important that when an accusation or assumption is made against something -- especially something traditionally inset into our society, that it is backed up by legitimate and proven claims. Instead of following "blind traditions of men," and pointing fingers in accusations, we need to unbiasedly study the facts and then make the correct decision concerning the topic.

The pagan god from the mystery religion known as Mithraism has been falsely said to have been tied in with the origin of Christmas, some claiming that he was the "Son of God" or "The Light of the World," also claiming that he died and rose again on the third day. This is debunked and proven false in the below link provided at the end of this post. Rather than Christmas having ties in the pagan religions, it seems that it was the other way around -- with the pagans on the other end. See also the article provided.

According to the religion, the pagans did infract celebrate Mithras on the 25th of December.

The Bible never indicates the birth of Christ, and it should be noted also that any day of the year can be celebrated as a "pagan" day. (Technically it is, isn't it?)

With great influence over the Empire of Rome, for the 25th of December -- it states that the church either had to take away the festivals on the 25th or transform them.

And this is what we have today, instead of them continuing on celebrating the pagan god, they turned to Christ, the Son of the Living God.

We shouldn't point fingers in accusation just because something "appears" wrong on the outside. We should study and examine the facts. You don't quit listening to preachers on Sunday just because they're human and sin, too.

"Unfortunately, some will read this and still blindly think that these things such as Christmas are wrong. I pray that your eyes and ears be opened to the facts, so that you may not feel guilty about celebrating the birth of Christ and not worry that its somehow tied to pagan religions. Its not about tradition at all, but about our Lord."

Info. Provided --> http://www.probe.org/cults-and-world-religions/cults-and-world-religions/did-christianity-borrow-from-pagan-religions.html

On behalf of a friends study on this topic.....

[jaysee]

Your quote; "Unfortunately, some will read this and still blindly think that these things such as Christmas are wrong. I pray that your eyes and ears be opened to the facts, so that you may not feel guilty about celebrating the birth of Christ and not worry that its somehow tied to pagan religions. Its not about tradition at all, but about our Lord."

Well i would worry about someone who says "and not worry that its somehow tied to pagan religions."In my book that is compromising our Faith,if you incorporate Jesus into a Baal worshipping festival, cos that is what the world & most churches do!
Constantine bought in an edict of toleration in 312AD,because the Romans were under attack,& he wanted everyone to get along (Christians & sun, moon & tree worshippers),so he watered down Christs message to make it acceptable to the majority,rather than the truth that the disciples preached & most were killed because of their Faith!!
I will let Jim Brown explain the rest,as he has had 50 years of study through Hebrew & Greek texts,of Biblical Truth;)

The Christmas Tree
Jeremiah 10:2-5 - Learn not the way of the heathen -- for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. -- They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not.-- They are upright as the palm tree --

upright - Hebrew: Miqsah - rounded work; curls and stresses (as seen on a Christmas tree) moulded by hammering
I Kings 16:33 -- And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.

grove - Hebrew: asherah - Astarte; Phoenician (Sidonian) goddess; upright or straight; a tree
The "Christmas Tree" finds its beginning at Babylon as the Ashteroth (the female moon deity represented as a tree). Upon the expulsion of the sun and moon (Baal and the Groves) worship from Babylon, the "Seat of Satan" relocated at Pergamos (Rev. 2:13). The king of Pergamos (Attalus III) died and left his Chaldean system of magic and superstition to Rome by will and testament. Upon organizing the Romanist Church, Constantine not only implemented the Chaldean system of Sun and Moon worship into his church, he adapted their annual 7 day festival of drunken revelry and riotous immorality. The festival, called the Saturnalia, was given the name Christmass within the church. The Astarte (grove - Ashteroth - Venus) or "Christmas Tree" was an integral part of this festival. From Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop:

The Christmas tree now so common among-us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt, that tree was the Palm Tree; in Rome it was the "fir".

The mother of Adonis, the sun god and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth a divine son. If the mother was the tree, the son must have been recognized as "Man the Branch" (a corruption of Zechariah's prophecy concerning Christ, the branch of God - Zech. 6:12). This accounts for the putting of the yule-log into the fire Christmas Eve and the appearing of the Christmas tree the next morning. As Zero-Ashta, "the seed of woman," which name also signified "born of the fire" (the fire god), he has to enter the fire on "Mother night" (December 24th in the ancient world), that he may be born the next day (December 25th) out of it, as the "Branch of God", or the Tree that brings all divine gifts to men. Thus, we see on Christmas morning the gifts under and around the tree as his gifts to his worshipers. December 25th was known far and wide throughout the pagan world as the exact birthday of Adonis the tree god (Allah) of Babylon. This Venus-Tree worship, along with her consort Baal (the sun), corrupted Israel, invoking the wrath of God for their idolatry. This goddess of the groves was imported from Babylon (Iraq) into Israel upon the marriage of Ahab, King of Northern Israel, to Jezebel, the daughter of Ethbaal, a priest of the Ashtoreth of Babylon (I Kings 16:31). God's judgement for such wickedness has been to purge Israel for 2600 years with sword, famine, and pestilence (Jer. 29:17-19). Jesus was born of a virgin. He was God in the flesh. He died and shed his blood as an atonement for sin that all who believe in him will have eternal life. However, Christmas (the Saturnalia) and The Christmas Tree (Venus - the groves) have nothing to do with his birth. We have corrupted ourselves.

Jaysee

:-)

[Ken]

When trying to understand trivial points concerning Christian faith and God, it is important that when an accusation or assumption is made against something -- especially something traditionally inset into our society, that it is backed up by legitimate and proven claims. Instead of following "blind traditions of men," and pointing fingers in accusations, we need to unbiasedly study the facts and then make the correct decision concerning the topic.I find nothing trivial about calling good evil and evil good. Have you studied the facts because the website you linked certainly didn't post any facts to justify calling this pagan holiday Christian. The facts are this holiday is pagan in origin. It is still celebrated in the same way it's always been celebrated since long before Jesus’s birth. Simply repeating the lie that this is Jesus’s birthday will not make this pagan holiday Christian. I don’t think Jesus would see one thing Christian about it. How would you justify calling this pagan holiday Christian to Jesus? Would you tell Jesus, I ignore the bible and act like a pagan to worship you? What have you done this holiday season that is Christian? Have you went into the prisons to minister, or fed widows and their kids, went downtown to take blankets and food to the homeless? Or did you just buy a bunch of Chinese crap for your kids and lie to them telling them satan claus is rewarding them for being good?

The pagan god from the mystery religion known as Mithraism has been falsely said to have been tied in with the origin of Christmas, some claiming that he was the "Son of God" or "The Light of the World," also claiming that he died and rose again on the third day. This is debunked and proven false in the below link provided at the end of this post. Rather than Christmas having ties in the pagan religions, it seems that it was the other way around -- with the pagans on the other end. See also the article provided.Did you actually read that article? I don’t see how you could have and think the article proves anything other than Christmass is pagan in origin.

According to the religion, the pagans did infract celebrate Mithras on the 25th of December.

The Bible never indicates the birth of Christ, and it should be noted also that any day of the year can be celebrated as a "pagan" day. (Technically it is, isn't it?)

With great influence over the Empire of Rome, for the 25th of December -- it states that the church either had to take away the festivals on the 25th or transform them.

And this is what we have today, instead of them continuing on celebrating the pagan god, they turned to Christ, the Son of the Living God.

We shouldn't point fingers in accusation just because something "appears" wrong on the outside. We should study and examine the facts. You don't quit listening to preachers on Sunday just because they're human and sin, too.

"Unfortunately, some will read this and still blindly think that these things such as Christmas are wrong. I pray that your eyes and ears be opened to the facts, so that you may not feel guilty about celebrating the birth of Christ and not worry that its somehow tied to pagan religions. Its not about tradition at all, but about our Lord."Blindly believe Christmass is wrong? Who is it that has posted fact after fact and scripture after scripture on this topic? What have you, or those trying to get True Christians to follow the masses to do evil posted? Just because you keep saying Christians should ignore the origins of this pagan holiday and call it Christian in no way changes anything.

On behalf of a friends study on this topic.....Do you mean this is someone else’s attempt to convince us to call good evil and evil good? If that is the case you should have given credit to the author.

[jaysee]

well done Ken! I am glad there are a few of us still following Jesus in His Narrow Way(Mat7 v 13) while the rest just............!

Jaysee

[USA Ford Gal]

How old were you when you discovered Santa Claus wasn't really real ?????

But there is more to the Christmas story than originally believed for example

Dec. 25 is not the true date of his birth..

Y'shua - Jesus was not born on december 25 as we have been lead to believe.


When was Y'shua - Jesus born then ????

All..." indications it was probably in the fall of the year.. We know Jesus was crucified in the spring at the time of the Passover john 18:39"....".his ministery lasting three and a half years, this would place the beginning of his ministry in fall .. At the time, he was about thirty years of age luke 3:23"......" numbers 4:3" ....."If he turned thirty in the fall, the his birthday was the fall, thirty years before".... p.150

Another example.... "no records to indicate the middle of the winter taxing"......"fall ,the end of the harvest is more logical"...."feast of tabernacles" ......"jerusalm a city 120,000" ...."as many as 2,000,000 jews would gather"....."filling surrounding towns Bethleham five mile south"....."place jesus birthday in fall p.151 Babylon Mystery religioun anchient and modern Ralf Woodrow 0-916938-x p.o. box 124, riverside, CA 92502



The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.........Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).......It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife Elizabeth would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth...... ..........................<http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn55/christmas_evidence.htm>

So the evidence is Y'shua - Jesus' birthday is on the first day of the feast of Tabernacles other wise also known as the feast of - Booths, Succoth, and Ingathering.

So why was the date for the Messiah birth changed?????

The Roman Catholic Church chose December 25 as the day for the Feast of the Nativity in order to give Christian meaning to existing pagan rituals. For example, the Church replaced festivities honoring the birth of Mithra, the god of light, with festivities to commemorate the birth of Jesus, whom the Bible calls the light of the world. The Catholic Church hoped to draw pagans into its religion by allowing them to continue their revelry while simultaneously honoring the birthday of Jesus."........."Christian beliefs combined with existing pagan feasts and winter rituals to create many long-standing traditions of Christmas celebrations"......Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved

This combining different systems from the pagan mystery religions goes beyond the birth day of Y'shua, what has happened is essentially they developed a completely new system of worship, that no longer holds anything in common with the early church under the direction of the original 12 Apostles practiced and believed.

The Messiah Himself was Jewish as well as the original 12 Apostles .

The prophets of the Old Testament who fore told the coming King; were also Hebrew...

Since Y'shua was born at the time of the feast of tabernacles,

why not remember his birthday at the proper time?????


Mithraism ....... the adoption of Sundays and of December 25 (Mithra's birthday) as holy days,........Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

..." The well known feast of Natalis Invicti the nativity of the Unconquered Sun--" celebrated on December 25 "... p.151 Babylon Mystery religioun anchient and modern Ralf Woodrow 0-916938-x p.o. box 124, riverside, CA 92502

Polytheism,...." belief in the existence of many gods or divine beings. It has been widespread in human cultures, past and present, and has taken many forms. Natural forces and objects-celestial, atmospheric, and earthly (such as stars, rain, mountains, and fire)-have often been identified with divinities. Gods have also been worshiped in the form of vegetation (especially trees and cultivated plants) "..... Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Jeremiah 10:2. Thus saith" Yah, ", Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."..... King James Version


Christianity which in the beginning was but another Jewish sect competing with the rest of them for the souls of the Jewish nation. Then with the triumph of Constantine the Great 306-337 and his sponcership of christianity the Jews of the regioun, as well as else where in the empire, become the objects of repressive legislation based upon the theory that thier time and place in history was finished, having been superseded by the New Isreal, the christian church. Encyclopedia Americana book 21 p.200c


Some want to say if you don't observe dec. 25 as His birthday your not Christian.

Some say it does not matter what day we observe!!


Isaiah 30:1. Woe to the rebellious children, saith Yhwh, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:......

8. Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:

3117| for the day |0314| latter.... last, latter

9. That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of Yhwh:

10. Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

11. Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

12. Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:

13. Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

14. And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.....

20. And though Yhwh give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

21. And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Why do I have to observe the pagan date of Dec. 25 to be Christian ?????

Why isn't more christian to observe his true birthday, during the feast of Tabernacles

Tell me what you think.. thanks !

Sign God Bless and take care
Usa Ford Gal

[Teegz]

Thank you for your input i will gladly pass it on to my friend who posted this study

[Teegz]

Ken this was posted on behalf of a friend of mine who was unable to post here but he wished to remain anonymous....

[whoislikegod]

Almost every aspect of Christmas has its true roots in paganism - Holly, Ivy, Christmans trees, christmas puddings, mince pies... are all derived from pagan orgins. True there is a Christian veneer that has been put on them, but we should not be fooled. I believe the theological word is 'syncretism' or mixing. By mixing Christ with paganism, Christ has become diluted. The 'true meaning of Christmas' is confused, and so the message of Christ is confused. If this is true of Christmas, it is also true of Easter, which is founded in pagan fertility rites, which a Christian veneer.


However, part of the challenge for us Christians today is not what we should not do, but what we should do. The church has a long history of looking to stop things, pronouncing things sinful and to be avoided. But the message of Christ should be primarily positive - a living, vibrant relationship with God, lived out day to day. That relationship should be expressed in all that we do. As Christians, our message to the world should be 'we live with God, we enjoy him, we feast on his blessings, etc', rather than 'we don't do this or that...'.

[USA Ford Gal]

the Feast of Ingathering

We have been studing about the Birthday of the Messiah being during the feast of tabernacles, which is also known as the Feast of Ingathering (see Exodus 23:16,

The ingathering of the people concerning the Messiah has Jewish as well as international implications in the last days before the Judgement of the world...

The setting of the scripture below is where Jacob is dieing and calls his 12 sons into his side to talk to them for the last time, though the whole of his conversation with them is interesting and you can look it up to read it; to keep it simple, I will only deal with the parts that concern the revealing of the messiah.

Example below

Genesis 49:1. And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days......

vs10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,

until Shiloh come;

Strong's Ref. # 7886-- Shiloh--- Pronounced shee-lo'......n epithet of the Messiah:

and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

the gathering Strong's Ref. # 3349 ...... Pronounced yik-kaw-haw' from the same as HSN3348; obedience: KJV--gathering, to obey.

Here we find mentioning of the ingathering of the people to the Messiah (Shiloh) who is also born on the feast of Ingathering or also known as the feast of Tabernacles.

Vs 11 conferms we are Jacobis refering to Y'hsua Jesus.

11. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

Ah, but there is even more to be found here in this treasure, of scripture

Genesis 49:18. I have waited for thy ( 3444 salvation,) O YaH.

[3444]salvation Strong's .... yshuw`ah , .... Pronounced yesh-oo'-aw

Isn't this wonderful

Here Jacob goes on to reveal the name of the Messiah.

See how the truth of the Messiah birthday during the Feast of Tabernacles takes on so much more meaning.

[corrie]

I enjoyed the Christmas thing with my children when they were small - but didn't relate it to Jesus. Took a while to decide it would be better to just let it go by without any interest except that it's not a working day! That's more or less the way we celebrate Christmas these days, and allow the Coca Cola Advert man to promote his product. That was a clever marketing trick! Anyway, December where I am pretty much midsummer, with summer solstice about 3 days before, so that red coat is a bit excessive here. Sells cokes though.

[truthhurtsdealwitit]

My daughter knows that there is no Santa Clause nor Easter Bunny. She know that it is a lie. She also knows that the Messiah was not born on this day. She is five and she understands that we do not celebrate these kinds of things. I am not a Jehovah witness. I am simply a person seeking truth. Thou shalt not lie. Then why do they lie to their children about fictional characters. Just my opinion. I don't have to celebrate the Messiah's birth on a certain day. I celebrate every day.
Yahweh bless!

[InChrist]

We are Christian. Not JW's. And, we don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, as they are originations from pagan celebrations and the compromise the the Catholic church had in order to fill the pews and coffers of the day. We worship Jesus and God... we don't worship his birth, as he wasn't born on Christmas (Dec 25th), so we don't do it. Easter, (today actually) is set for remember the sacrifice and resurrection of our Savior. We don't collect eggs, bunnies don't lay eggs and so on...

:-)

[Dani]

Is Christmas endorsed by the Word of God? The scriptures says that we should worship Him in spirit and truth. With that being said, the truth is Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. We should not lie to our children about fictional charecters (Santa Clause). The most important fact is God the father said that we should not name his name among the pagans.

Dec. 25th is the birthday of Mithra (sun god/pagan worship) Please look it up. Why do we as the Church celebrate what is totally man/pagan tradition and neglect the days established by the Lord and kept by the disciples.

My family and I do not keep Christmas and we are not JW's. We are Born again beleivers and after looking at the Word of God we realize that keeping Christmas is no different that keeping Halloween. One example is Jeremiah 10 speaks to the pagan traditions of tree decorations, and the list goes on.

I agree with you. I found the info around Christmas last year and I will not be "celebrating" Christmas anymore. It's not Christian.

[InChrist]

We don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, Hallowe'en, Valentines Day, etc. I don't believe that any of these are Christian, glorify God, or are commanded to be kept.

I think, there are a lot of Christians confused at this, because they try to justify it as something that they can celebrate... "Christ" in Christmas...he wasn't born then... it is just another trapping of Satan to confuse and confound religion. Nothing more that a compromise by a church, to have pagans fill the pews and coffers to build more churches to fool more people... Satan, at his finest... messing with religion.

The one that 'get's me is the overt Satanic ritual of Hallowe'en... and Chrisitian's justifying their actions with... we can dress up as angels, or a princess or nothing scary... or or or or... you know... it is just THE worst night... Satan, demons, witches... the occult loves that night.... check out ''www.godtube.com" and search for halloween... there is a 5-6 part series on there, by a former witch...explaining what Hallowe'en really is. She is a Christian now... and it is amazing... to hear what she talks about... and how blunt she puts it.

Blessings all...
Pray for Christ's return...
InChrist, Tracy.

[Dani]

We don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, Hallowe'en, Valentines Day, etc. I don't believe that any of these are Christian, glorify God, or are commanded to be kept.

I think, there are a lot of Christians confused at this, because they try to justify it as something that they can celebrate... "Christ" in Christmas...he wasn't born then... it is just another trapping of Satan to confuse and confound religion. Nothing more that a compromise by a church, to have pagans fill the pews and coffers to build more churches to fool more people... Satan, at his finest... messing with religion.

The one that 'get's me is the overt Satanic ritual of Hallowe'en... and Chrisitian's justifying their actions with... we can dress up as angels, or a princess or nothing scary... or or or or... you know... it is just THE worst night... Satan, demons, witches... the occult loves that night.... check out ''www.godtube.com" and search for halloween... there is a 5-6 part series on there, by a former witch...explaining what Hallowe'en really is. She is a Christian now... and it is amazing... to hear what she talks about... and how blunt she puts it.

Blessings all...
Pray for Christ's return...
InChrist, Tracy.

Yeah, I agree with you.

[imanieyes]

I totally agree with what you said. So many other Christians knock me for thinking Christian children should not participate in Halloween, even if they are dressed up as angels. Many time the church has a habit of copying worldly events as a way of Christianizing them. Like for instance, my church had a halloween party but the rule was you could have to pick Christian-friendly costumes to wear. The world should be following Christians not the other way around.

Also many Christians think is is rude and selfish for a parent to not allow their children to believe in Santa Claus. They think you are taking away the fun. All Jesus has done for us and we allow our children to put their hopes and dreams into some fictious character. Ba Humbug!

[heman]

who ever reads this go to jeremiah chapter 10:1-5. their is nothing in the bible that says any thing about chrismas.

[keturah]

The Word said whatever day we make as a memorial unto Our Lord, Keep it! If is is not the day he was born, we do know that he was born and altho it might be the wrong day it is a day in which worship him in Spirit and truth. So what do you want to happen...No celebration of his birth at all? The world is always attempting to dilute and adulterate God spirit and truth all the time. All days belong to God, irregardless what man has made them into. They just wasn't give God the Glory in their belief. But the harvest days and the sowing days were in fact his all along.
As for me and my house we have a birthday party, Jesus is soon to be 2008 years old from his birth. I will set aside one day for his birth and one day for his resurrection each and every year during my life and I will know God honors my memorial, even iif I am the only one on this earth that does so. The World can do whatever they want to. I am not of the world. Do you think God, says in his thoughts, "they got my birthday wrong, I wrathful!" or do you think God, says in his thoughts, 'Look they gave honor to my birth."
And that is all I have to say about that.

[SalvationisinZion]

well said Some Guy! Christmas was based on Pagan celebrations and no one can deny that. So why would any Christian celebrate Christmas and NOT celebrate Passover (the way that Jesus taught his disciples at the appointed time) or any of the other feasts that Jesus and his apostles kept and taught? Because of tradtion people are stuck on these fake holidays and make believe they are about Christ. Everyone needs to read about the sin of Jerobaum and realize that when we celebrate Christmas we are doing the same horrible thing they did then.

[Bradley D.]

Christmas has really turned into a big "Commercial" nightmare. On the 1st of September here in the Philippines they have already started promoting/selling Christmas on television. I see it as a holiday that makes the rich feel richer and the poor feel poorer. I do not believe that Jesus approves of a lot that goes on during the so called "Christmas Season." In the U.S. a lot of stores do not even allow the "Salvation Army" to collect donations anymore during the Christmas season!

[Enow]

Colossians 2: 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14: 1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

So in regards to the day, as in Christmas, if anyone regard it as not a day to observe or consider it unclean, then consider it as doing it unto the Lord that you regard not the day. But those that do regard the day, judge them not for they are the Lord's.

One that do regard the day, remind each other that Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Christ Jesus. One is doing this day in honour of Him. He did not teach it, but neither is the day to be considered as not honouring Him as a sin if no one regarded the day to celebrate His birth because the world has capitalized on it so much that the spirit of giving as Christ set the divine example has been lost in the spirit of covetousness. We are the Lord's. Therefore, let everyone go by their conscience in how they regard the day. A local church could pick another day to celebrate the spirit of giving to regard Christ's birth just to avoid the fervor of capitalism as the gift of giving desn't have to be by a material gift but an act of love towards anyone as one doing it unto the Lord. I have heard people wished that people had continued in the gift of giving or being neighborly instead of just doing it for one season of the holiday.

So one can start a tradition by treating everyday as doing it unto the Lord by continuing on the gift of giving when we show love for our neighbor since we are to be doing that everyday anyway. Transcend the spirit behind Christmas as an everyday event, but do it only because you want to... not because you have to for the Lord loves a cheerful giver... and you are the Lord's. One need not burn oneself out to show love for the Lord as if one needs to prove it. We are the Lord's. That is the rest in Christ Jesus.

[chriswva2]

No , Christmas was a pagan holliday that was latter converted into a christian Holliday. Satan Clause, knows when youve been bad or good just like God, then you are given gifts like God or Christ brings us? Then one day we tell our children Satan Clause isn't real. How are our children suppose to believe us about God when we lie to our children about anti-Christ Cringle?