Can a Saved Person Choose to be Lost?

[cyberemnant]

This is a 'yes' or 'no' question and addresses the ongoing debate of whether a saved person can ever become lost again. I believe in the security of the believer, but not in "once-saved-always-saved". I am soliciting answers to the above 'yes' or 'no' question. God bless you.

[OneJoe]

This is a 'yes' or 'no' question and addresses the ongoing debate of whether a saved person can ever become lost again. I believe in the security of the believer, but not in "once-saved-always-saved". I am soliciting answers to the above 'yes' or 'no' question. God bless you.
cyberemnant...the answer is no. Because a saved person would have God working in them. The bible says 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Since God is not willing that his children perish then they will not be able to...

Also..you said you don't believe in once saved always saved...well...lets look at another verse in relation to that as well...Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

[OneJoe]

This is a 'yes' or 'no' question and addresses the ongoing debate of whether a saved person can ever become lost again. I believe in the security of the believer, but not in "once-saved-always-saved". I am soliciting answers to the above 'yes' or 'no' question. God bless you.
cyberemnant...the answer is no. Because a saved person would have God working in them. The bible says 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Since God is not willing that his children perish then they will not be able to...

Also..you said you don't believe in once saved always saved...well...lets look at another verse in relation to that as well...Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

[lil lulu]

I believe that the answer to this question, sadly is yes. Unfortunately the are good chrisitian people that for one reason or another don't feel that they "need" to go to church on a regular basis. We need food to live- right? So what makes a person think they do not need to feed their faith. Yes once you are saved- god has forgiven you your sins- it doesn't mean that you will forever be sin-free.

Food for thought and God Bless

[cyberemnant]

Onejoe...the verses you quoted all are addressing believers who have chosen to be saved and remain saved...those verses do not address the question of whether a saved person can CHOOSE TO BE LOST.
Yes, the Holy Spirit "seals" a believer when they receive Christ, but you cannot point to one verse that says the seal can't be broken.
Salvation is not a one-time choice...it is a continuous choice...one that must be kept active by continual re-committment to following Christ.
Just look at John 15:1-6. Jesus says that in order for us to continue living, we must continue abiding. "Abiding" is not referring to a one-time choice.
Plus, we know that when a person receives Christ as Savior and Lord, that person's name is written in the Book of Life in heaven. The following verses clearly reveal that a person's name can be BLOTTED OUT from the Book of Life. Exo 32:31-33/Rev 3:5/Psalm 69:28/Rev 22:19.
Can a name be BLOTTED OUT if it never was there in the first place? no.
Then, the blotting out must refer to saved people. When that person's name is blotted out it means they were once saved, but some time later they were lost again.
BUT, it will never be by God's choice...only by our freedom of choice.
When we become Christians, we do not lose our freedom to choose.
We are free to be lost again anytime we want to be....God will not force anyone into heaven against his or her will...if He could, He would definitely force EVERYONE to be in heaven, because He loves the world that much!

[cyberemnant]

Hi Lil Lulu...

Please don't take the question I asked as an effort to discourage anyone. Don't let the thought of saved people becoming lost again make you sad.
We who are abiding in Christ by re-committing our lives to Him everyday and are praying without ceasing and are cooperating daily with the Holy Spirit's work of renewing our mind and restoring us back to the image of God have every reason to rejoice! Jesus is coming again and He will definitely take home those who love His appearing! Just keep your faith alive and keep your eyes on Jesus and keep trusting Him alone for your salvation....then you will have nothing to worry about. YOU ARE SAVED AND YOU WILL REMAIN THAT WAY unless you choose to walk away from Jesus.
But I know you would never do that!
God bless you!

[cyberemnant]

Another thing, joe...you quoted Ephesians 4:30....i'm sure you agree with the implication in the verse: It is possible to grieve the Holy Spirit.
What result would that have?
It would break the seal.
That's why Paul found it necessary to warn us against the danger of doing it.

God's Blessings to You, my friend!

[likeadeerpantsforwater]

i dont think just because you believe means you always will. CS Lewis is an example of the on-off-on-off-on again relationship with god, as are a few of my friends.

[godschild]

Yes. Every decission we make is a choice. We can become lost again by choice, but by the precious blood of the lamb, Jesus Christ, we can ask for forgivness and re-new ourselves and become in god's grace and be saved.

[adlemi]

A resounding yes is the answer to your query brother. The Lord said to us that for as long as we are placing ourself in the hands of the Lord God Jesus, we are saved, but that does not mean that this will be forever should we commit sin, be here in the earth or in paradise. Definitely, we lost our salvation once we go astray or turn our back away to the Lord God. The Lord further said to us that His trials, be here in the world where we live or be in paradise, is never ending nor never ceasing and this will be forever.

[OneJoe]

Another thing, joe...you quoted Ephesians 4:30....i'm sure you agree with the implication in the verse: It is possible to grieve the Holy Spirit.
What result would that have?
It would break the seal.
That's why Paul found it necessary to warn us against the danger of doing it.

God's Blessings to You, my friend!
Cyber, the vereses I quoted do not show people who have salvation by their own choice. You will need to find another verse if you want to read that into it, but you will not find it of course.

Eph1:13 says after that ye believed.....we both know that God grants us faith. He grants us the ability to believe. We don't just suddenly choose we are going to believe in God, but rather he grants us belief by his word. I don't see how someone can read so much into a scripture about "choice". These verses mention nothing of choice. Those saved are saved because God chose them, he gave them the gift of salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Also, Joh 10:28-29 is quite clear that those who are given eternal life will NEVER perish. Obviously, if we could choose to perish then that would make God a liar, but that is not the case because if God said his people that are sealed, saved, etc, will not perish, then they certainly will not perish. Until you can find scriptures that show us all that we can choose to perish, then there isn't much point here.

Also, Perhaps you should take a look at Hebrews Chapter 6. This chapter mentions those that had tasted of the heavenly gift, but had NOT yet obtained it, and they FELL AWAY putting Christ to an open shame and having no hope of being renewed again to repentance. Obviously these people were called by God, but they fell away into the sins of the flesh. Even in this chapter, it does not show they had a choice. Until you can prove that we can choose to perish, then those that do perish and those that are saved will be solely in God's hands, according to his purpose and good pleasure.

[cyberemnant]

Joe...my brother.

Please...I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I can tell from your replies that you love the Lord...you love His Word...you believe you have a correct understanding of His Word...BUT, you don't understand my position.

Look at this way...if God was the one making the choice of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell, then He would be GUILTY of DENYING salvation to millions of people! Do you realize what that accusation against God means? Do you realize how that misrepresents God's character? He is "not willing that anyone should perish"! Why would He feel that way while at the same time taking the credit for some people actually perishing instead of repenting? Do you see the logic? Can you imagine God thinking "With all my heart, I desire that every one of my creatures would repent and be saved! Why, oh, why won't they repent? Oh...wait...it's my fault! I didn't give them a choice! They had no choice! Oh, well."

I know I made it sound comical...but I did it to make a strong point.

And I hope you got the point. Fortunately, the majority of those reading this thread get it...

[germanJoy]

I should say AMEN Cyber, Amen! :-) I got it!

[OneJoe]

Joe...my brother.

Please...I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I can tell from your replies that you love the Lord...you love His Word...you believe you have a correct understanding of His Word...BUT, you don't understand my position.

Look at this way...if God was the one making the choice of who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell, then He would be GUILTY of DENYING salvation to millions of people! Do you realize what that accusation against God means? Do you realize how that misrepresents God's character? He is "not willing that anyone should perish"! Why would He feel that way while at the same time taking the credit for some people actually perishing instead of repenting? Do you see the logic? Can you imagine God thinking "With all my heart, I desire that every one of my creatures would repent and be saved! Why, oh, why won't they repent? Oh...wait...it's my fault! I didn't give them a choice! They had no choice! Oh, well."

I know I made it sound comical...but I did it to make a strong point.

And I hope you got the point. Fortunately, the majority of those reading this thread get it...

Cyber, I believe I do see where you coming from now, but I still firmly believe that God does choose who does go to heaven and who goes to hell. After all, come judgment day he will condemn some by his law because no sin will enter heaven. Also, I don't believe God choosing who is saved and who is not makes him guilty of anything and perhaps this is where we do not agree because you said he would be guilty of denying salvation to millions of people. Does God not call whom he will? Does he not blind some to truth when he could call them also? Does God not say many are called, few are chosen? That does say many are called, NOT everyone. Answer this question also, when the day comes that everyone finds out, including yourself, that indeed God called some and hardened or blinded others, who will step up first to accuse God.....will you? To judge God..will you? As for the misrepresentaton of God's character, that occurs when people make God out to be what they want him to be rather than viewing God in his sovereign grace who knows all, controls all, and chooses all, according to his purpose and will.

Quote: He is "not willing that anyone should perish"! Why would He feel that way while at the same time taking the credit for some people actually perishing instead of repenting? Do you see the logic? Can you imagine God thinking "With all my heart, I desire that every one of my creatures would repent and be saved! Why, oh, why won't they repent? Oh...wait...it's my fault! I didn't give them a choice! They had no choice! Oh, well."

God is not willing that any perish? Perhaps its your own view of that scripture as to why you have so much trouble with that compared to how I view it in relation to God saving whom he will. As I said before, God is not willing that his elect perish. That is why some will perish. In that scripture, God is not willing that ANY of his elect perish. That scripture is VERY clear. God will not have any to perish, yet some will perish so does this make God a liar? No it doesn't. Because that scripture was meant for his chosen people, not every man on this earth. I have no trouble with that scripture because I know God will keep his word and save those whom he has chosen. I view that scripture as yet another reassurence that God's coming to get his bride. His people know the hope of his calling.

As for you stating that God gave us no choice, I completely disagree with you. God made Adam and Eve with the ability to choose. Adam and Eve sinned and death passed upon all men; therefore, we lost our "ability" to choose the things of God. So no, I do NOT view this as God's fault. God knew this would happen, but the condition of man today is not on God, but rather man, since it MAN who transgressed.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Onejoe