Alcahol

[TallOne]

This is a question that I don't bring up in church,I'm suposed to already know.

Why is or is alcahol a sin. I've never realy understood this or seen scripture that was plain to me. I have read a few things about it and I can't recal the exact scripture but this is what I recal with a simple mind

beware wine when it is in it's color.

give a brother strong drink in his time of trouble

not to put strong drink to your brother's lips

be sober minded.

I do understand that drinking to excess would be bad like eating to excess
It seems to me like anything taken to excess or put before god or responsibility to taking care of your family is sin

I've often thought of this like Meat to somone who thinks eating meat is wrong to eat meat is sin and if you eat meat wich is no sin to offend your brother who doesen't eat meat is sin.

I hope my ramblings may make sense to somone and even more some good direction to the scripture would be appreciated especialy somthing more than what is taught from tradition.

[SpiritLedEd]

This is a question that I don't bring up in church,I'm suposed to already know.

Why is or is alcahol a sin. I've never realy understood this or seen scripture that was plain to me. I have read a few things about it and I can't recal the exact scripture but this is what I recal with a simple mind

beware wine when it is in it's color.

give a brother strong drink in his time of trouble

not to put strong drink to your brother's lips

be sober minded.

I do understand that drinking to excess would be bad like eating to excess
It seems to me like anything taken to excess or put before god or responsibility to taking care of your family is sin

I've often thought of this like Meat to somone who thinks eating meat is wrong to eat meat is sin and if you eat meat wich is no sin to offend your brother who doesen't eat meat is sin.

I hope my ramblings may make sense to somone and even more some good direction to the scripture would be appreciated especialy somthing more than what is taught from tradition.


The moderate consumption of alcohol is not wrong. In 1 Tim 5:23, Paul told Timothy to take a little wine to settle his stomach. You said it yourself; excessive drinking of alcohol is what is wrong. To a true alcoholic, however, stopping drinking is not a matter of mere willpower. It requires the help of God and counselling. The true alcoholic cannot "just stop", even when he knows the destruction he is causing.

Also, to be "sober minded" means to be able think clearly (with or without alcohol).

I hope this helps you.

SLE

[SemperReformanda]

"I hope my ramblings may make sense to somone and even more some good direction to the scripture would be appreciated especialy somthing more than what is taught from tradition."

'Tradition' might be too strong of a word. :) Historically thats not what the Church has held.

HOwever, since apparently your particular church seems believe so, I would caution you to be careful who you drink around and/or encourage to drink. Your alcohol/meat analogy is actually very biblical. In Romans 14 Paul also makes the same connection.

The tough part i find is knowing where the line is and where not to cross. Rom 14 Paul says he would rather never eat meat or drink than to cause a brother to act in any way not out of faith. But at the same time he calls them weaker brothers and says that they should also not judge the one who eats meat.. So my tendency is to not do it all around them and just avoid the topic completely. But when do you encourage them to grow up a little as they are to act according to the same passage?

Its a doosey. I still just avoid the topic i guess. (one of the local churches i attend seems to feel the same way your does) NOt sure if thats the right response to them or not, but would love to hear others imput on this.

Particularly of hte older wiser generation :)

[TallOne]

Thank you both for your reply,and it seems to be pretty close to what I understand of the scripture.

With the real dangers of alcahol like addiction and problems with excesive use I wouldn't incourage the use at all for the most part.

Along with the same scripture weve been mentioning "romans 14"I don't remember names and numbers well, but it sayes somthing to the effect that if you belive it to be a sin to eat meat it is a sin for you...

I know this is off topic a little but here's the one that get's me....If you know to do good and don't do it it's sin for you

I appoligize for not having the name & number for the scripture on this stuff. Lack of memory for this sort of thing is my handycap....Also people's names wich is very embaricing at times.....and no I'm not drunk:) just forgetfull J/K

[zarxs]

Drinking in moderation is fine. All things in moderation.

You might remember the passage where Jesus turns water into wine for a wedding party. If Wine or alcohol was inherently bad he wouldn't have converted it to Wine.

Abuse is the issue.

[TallOne]

The passage you brought up did come to mind,I've actualy heard it argued that it wasen't realy wine but juce that in the time that when the grapes were first pressed thay called this wine. Myself I find it hard to imagine at this big party that Jesus brought the juce.I think that it was probably the best wine this world has ever seen and wine not juce.

I believe in those pasages that he was reluctant but did this becouse his mother Mary asked him to "honor thy Father and Mother"

[blueheron32]

Tallone...

Any one who knows anything about making wine...could tell you that in Jesus day, there was no such thing as just juice, unless it was just pressed. Grape juice by its very nature begins to ferment as soon as it is made juice. There are naturally occuring yeast spores on the skins of the fruit that when combined with the sugars in the juice begin to react immediatly producing wine. The only way they could have kept the juice, juice is the same way we would do it today...heat the juice hot enough to kill any yeast spores present , and then can it, or freeze it. I doubt they had the technology to can juice , or freeze it then, so the natural way to preserve the juice, was to let nature take its course and let the juice turn to wine. when the wine was completely fermented it would then be sealed to keep out any air, again to keep out any acetibactor spores present to keep it from turning to vinegar. Wine thus preserved, could keep for years.

As has already been said..the Bible does not prohibit the use of wine...it prohibits drunkenness... there are passages that speak of wine as a blessing, and passages that speak of wine as a curse...the negative passages I am sure are always referring to drunkeness.

The same principal holds with almost anything you could think of...for instance...The bible does not prohibit the use of food...it prohibits gluttony.. The bible does not prohibit the use of sex..it prohibits adultry, fornication, homosexuality etc... The bible does not prohibit money...it prohibits the inordinate love of money... The bible does not prohibit the use of language, or speech... it prohibits cursing and blasphemy, and false witness, etc..do you see the point...??

As SemperReformanda alluded to..there is no need to flaunt the fact that one might use wine...when others might think it to be sin...Our first concern should be for the weaker brother, and the weaker brother should be reminded to not ask if the answer might be offensive to him...:-) Perhaps the time to encourage the weaker brother to grow a little would be when he suggests...that a person who uses wine, is sinning in that use...or even more could not be saved...

blueheron32

[Angel]

Wow Blue!

Where do you get all that information? You are a veritable encyclopaedia!! :LOL I mean the information about the grapes not the other as I know where you get that from. ;)

God bless

Angel :af

[zarxs]

In addition to Blues post which is absolutely true. Water in those days was either taken from rivers, taken from springs or rainfall was captured in cisterns. Now the problem is water wasn't always safe to drink so normally wine was served with meals it was very watered down wine but the alcohol killed the germs.

During wedding parties the practice was to serve the good wine first (strong and good flavored) then after the attendies got a little typsy the host would switch to cheap/poor quality wine which was often watered down.

The people who push the idea that alcohol was not used by Jews or Christians during that period have not studied history.

[Pinchee]

The Bible never says Alcohol is a sin it only deals with the excess I have delt with alcoholism personally and know the awful effects of it's missuse but I am ardently againts people who say Alcohol is a sin.

[EnterHisPresence]

On the subject of the Miracle of turning water into wine. If you notice or if you didn't, this particular miracle is the very first miracle performed by Jesus. The reason that he was as you say "reluctant," is because Mary didn't have the true understanding of Jesus' Ministry here on earth. Mary wanted this to be the proclomation to the world, that Jesus was/is the Messiah. That as you follow the life of Christ, we find out, was not God's plan. So His "reluctance," was not the fact that the miracle was making an alcholic beverage.

Now for the actual question for this thread...is drinking alchohal a sin. The answer is yes and no. Your question has already been given very good answers, but I want to give some actual scriptures that I haven't seen posted. Concerning the leaders of the church 1 Tim 3:2 states that a Bishop/Overseer is specifically forbidden alcohal. Although in verse 8 a deacon is allowed to drink wine...as stated "not given to much wine" meaning he's not allowed to get drunk. which could also be said of every other member of the church.

As for whether or not wine was real wine or grape juice. Wine in the bible was real wine. As you should well know, that it's almost entirely impossible to get drunk on grape juice, if at all possible. With that said let me point you to 1 Cor 11:21 Paul is scolding the church of Corinth not only for bickering and fighting during communion, but also for getting drunk.
In a more scientiffic approach...grape juice becomes wine by a process of fermentation. It's a natural process that takes place in the grape juice. However it was as late as the 1800's before the "unnatural" form was discoverd, that would keep this natural fermenting in the grape juice. This discovery of course was by Louis Pasteur. Pasteurization is caused by heating the liqued to a hot enough temp, that it destroys the (in this case) agent that naturally changes the grape juice into wine.
Hope this helped and didn't totally confuse anyone.

[jon_pressingon20]

I've always thought that alcohal is not neccessaraly a sin but, there are two reasons why I never will use alcohal. First, I think it is a sin if you get drunk. Second, I think it's very easy to loose your witness when you drink. Most people look at it as a no, no, for christians. So therefore It is probably best not to do it. In Corenthiens Paul talks about quiting any practice that causes your brothers to go astray. So it's probably not the best thing to do.

[TallOne]

I Love To Drink! I Believe That Jesus Create Alcohol So I Drink Alcohol Much! I Also Think That All Of Nature Created By Jesus Should Be Consume And Enjoy By Humans! Like Animals And The Pot!

I'm not sure on the scripture on this but the bible says to obey the laws of the land"i beleive this means the government" unless it would stop you from serving God. This would also make things such as speeding sin as I understand it and I am also guilty of too often. But then you may be whare it is legal wich would make it a different story.

[TallOne]

I've always thought that alcohal is not neccessaraly a sin but, there are two reasons why I never will use alcohal. First, I think it is a sin if you get drunk. Second, I think it's very easy to loose your witness when you drink. Most people look at it as a no, no, for christians. So therefore It is probably best not to do it. In Corenthiens Paul talks about quiting any practice that causes your brothers to go astray. So it's probably not the best thing to do.


I think that's a very good point.

[SpiritLedEd]

This is a question that I don't bring up in church,I'm suposed to already know.

Why is or is alcahol a sin. I've never realy understood this or seen scripture that was plain to me. I have read a few things about it and I can't recal the exact scripture but this is what I recal with a simple mind

beware wine when it is in it's color.

give a brother strong drink in his time of trouble

not to put strong drink to your brother's lips

be sober minded.

I do understand that drinking to excess would be bad like eating to excess
It seems to me like anything taken to excess or put before god or responsibility to taking care of your family is sin

I've often thought of this like Meat to somone who thinks eating meat is wrong to eat meat is sin and if you eat meat wich is no sin to offend your brother who doesen't eat meat is sin.

I hope my ramblings may make sense to somone and even more some good direction to the scripture would be appreciated especialy somthing more than what is taught from tradition.
I don't agree with those who say the consumption of alcohol is a sin. Only the excessive consumption of alcohol is wrong. Scripture says that Jesus partook of wine (Mt 11:19 - "The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they say 'here is a glutton and a drunkard...'." Also, in 1 Tim 5:23, Paul tells Timothy , "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."