Submission--thoughts on Collossians 3:17-24

[m.o.m.]

Here are my thoughts on the following verses:

Colossians 3:17-24

17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbnds, as it is fit in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
20 Children, obey your parentes in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.
22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it hearily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

These verses have always been hard for me. Having not had the example of a godly father or husband, I could not see how God could expect me to be a sumissive wife. I was sure, for a while, that these verses were just Paul's "cultural prejudice" against women. Afterall, God blessed me with a good mind and a heart for His word. He gave me a great faith. Why would he want me to be submissive to an alcoholic husband who did not honor him? (I was not and eventually divorced him).

I have since come to know that I can't dismiss God's inspired word because I think that Paul had a cultural prejudice...God's inspiration is more powerful than that. So as I looked at this passage today, God opened up a new point of view for me. I don't think these verses about how we are to relate to each other as families and servants/master (verses 18-22) can be understood without the verses surrounding them (verses 17 and 23-24). We are to do ALL things as unto the Lord...whether it be in our job, our play, our family, or our church. Can I cheerfully be submissive as an act of worship and service to our Lord? YES, I think it is the only way that I can do so.

As a matter of fact, as I think of how God uses marriage as a metaphor for Christ and His church, I think it is a privelege, as a woman, to example the submission that the church should have to Christ. I am not saying this will always be easy, but I do understand it and believe that God will provide the power as needed.

Thanks for listening.

m.o.m.

[Little_Lamb]

Hey mom!

Thank you so much for sharing that! I have also been meditating on that scripture recently and have coem to the same conclusions as you! God bless you abundantly!!

[larry]

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Dear MOM, I do not know if my input will help you here, but on the verse is Colossians above, I have always thought that the key to understanding it is the end part where it says “as it is fit in the Lord.” You said you were married to an alcoholic, and I would guess your husband, and other alcoholics demand many ungodly things of their wives. Those things were not fit in the Lord. I have heard of certain wives that took beatings to make a stand for the Lord, when they could not do those things that were not fit in the Lord. Now this was an order of the Lord revealed to Paul, and also in 1 Corinthians 7:10 we see where Paul says that it is the Lord commanding something.

1 Corinthians 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord

QUOTE: I can't dismiss God's inspired word because I think that Paul had a cultural prejudice...God's inspiration is more powerful than that.

If Paul had cultural prejudice, It would be reflected only in those things he said that were not commanded of the Lord, but of his own personal opinion like the following verses.

1 Corinthians 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself.

1 Corinthians 7:25 I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment

God bless you my sweet sister in the Lord in the name of Jesus - larry :)

[m.o.m.]

Thank you so much, Larry, for your response. I never meant to imply that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. I do not believe that our Lord would ask us to do so. In comparison to what so many women go through, I was blessed in that I was not physically abused. There was, however, a lot of emotional turmoil which not only affected me but also my children. I realize it is easier for me to write the statements in the post above when I am no longer in the situation.

Certainly God does not intend anyone (wife, husband, child, or "slave") to commit or submit to an immoral act. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I posted this more out of my own conviction of pride...of thinking I was above the need for submission when we are all called to submit to our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ...m.o.m.

[Rufus]

Thank you so much, Larry, for your response. I never meant to imply that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. I do not believe that our Lord would ask us to do so. In comparison to what so many women go through, I was blessed in that I was not physically abused. There was, however, a lot of emotional turmoil which not only affected me but also my children. I realize it is easier for me to write the statements in the post above when I am no longer in the situation.

Certainly God does not intend anyone (wife, husband, child, or "slave") to commit or submit to an immoral act. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I posted this more out of my own conviction of pride...of thinking I was above the need for submission when we are all called to submit to our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Christ...m.o.m.

Before I pose this question, I would like to establish a couple of things. I do not have a position on this issue save for this; if a man lifts his hand against a woman he is a filthy sow for men are to treat their wives as Christ taught the church and physical or emotional abuse is inconsistent with these instructions. If a man should do these things he should fall to his knees in repentance to God and confess his sins to the one he has offended and ask for forgiveness.

However, relative to this statement:

"I never meant to imply that a woman should stay in an abusive relationship. I do not believe that our Lord would ask us to do so."

Marriage is forever and the vow is until death do us part. What is the scripture that declares to the woman, if your man beats you divorce him? Again, if a man does this, he is vermin and will be judged by an Almighty God and perhaps there is a Biblical argument for divorce as a result of emotional or physical abuse, I'm just wondering what it is.

(btw - Loved the original post)

[DanV aka FreetoloveGod]

Paul is addressing The Christian Home in Colossians 3:18-25. And in Colossians 3:17, Paul is stipulating the Character of the New Man in Christ.

Verses 18-19: "Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

This passage is saying that Christians living in a Christian Home can have submission and bitterness problems.

Verses 20-22 says the Children should obey their parents, Fathers should not provoke their children and the duties of Bondservants.

Verse 23, summarized verses 18-22 with "And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not to men."

Now, we conclude this passage with verses 24-25: "Knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance for you serve the Lord Christ. But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is not partiality."

So, what is being said here?

Wives should submit to their own husbands, Husbands should love their wives.

With these instructions in mind, there sould be no diversion in the Christian Home.

Now, what do we do if verse 18 and 19 is ignored or violated in some fashion or the other?

Divorce?

First of all, we have to remember the "God hates divorce." So, therefore, every avenue should be explored to avoid divorce.

If no decision can be reached by both parties to live peacably, in submission and love, then what is the alternative? As Christians, we should definitely pray and seek God's wisdom before getting a divorce.

What does the Bible say about the provisions for Divorce? We can read what procedures were taken in the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 24-1, concerning divorce, however, as Christians, we look to the New Testament. What does the New Testament say about divorce?

Mark 10:2-12, you can read what Jesus said about Marriage and Divorce when addressing the Pharisees. This instruction to the Pharisees seems to be hard and to the point; "whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. "And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Is that the final and only instruction given in the New Testament concerning divorce? Is there no provisions for abuse, alcoholism of one or both parties?

Matthew 5:31-32: Furthermore it has been said , "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce."

"But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."

1 Corinthians 7:1-16: [Principles of Marriage-excellent reading]

Matthew 19:3-12: This passage says, among other things:

1) When you marry, a man should "leave" his mother and father and be "joined" to his wife. [this is saying, in my opinion, that the wife is now the most important person in a man's life]

2) Then they become "one flesh" they are no longer two but "one flesh."
[this is saying, in my opinion, that they should be so in tuned with each other, that their every thought, desire, wants, are as of one person]

3) God "joins" people together in marriage.[not only in a church service but anywhere two people are "joined" in marriage]

Jesus disciples said, after hearing Jesus, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it it better not to be married."

God Bless.

[m.o.m.]

Hello Rufus, and thanks for your response.

Marriage is forever and the vow is until death do us part. What is the scripture that declares to the woman, if your man beats you divorce him? Again, if a man does this, he is vermin and will be judged by an Almighty God and perhaps there is a Biblical argument for divorce as a result of emotional or physical abuse, I'm just wondering what it is.


Rufus, I understand the problems with this and have not found such a scripture...at least not a direct one. if someone knows an indirect one, I would also be interested in hearing it.

I cannot say that a woman should divorce her husband for abuse...that is a decision between her and the Lord...but I do believe she can leave and get to a safe place. She can ensure her own safety and the safety of her children. I cannot even say that I believe that I should have gotten a divorce. To be quite honest, at the time I was not really walking with the Lord as I should have been and didn't ask His permission. One thing I do know, however. I KNOW that God's grace IS, always has been, and continues to be sufficient for all things. I am so grateful for His mercy and grace toward a sinner such as I.

Thanks again for your response, Rufus. God bless!

m.o.m.

[kreati0n]

As far as submissiveness is concerned, it's good to keep in mind the "no man can have two masters" passage...I don't think the passage is intended to make servants out of women or lesser life forms. I do think it means, at the least by Paul, that the man is intended to be the "leader" of the family, so to speak.

...and that's an incredibly un-PC thing to say. I can't help but wonder if, when Paul is accused of being a misogynist, it's really not just us unwilling to accept something violently un-PC. Pride, maybe?

The problem that I see with writing Paul off like that is the authority that scripture holds as being scripture. Flawless.

Food for thought.