Tithes and Offerings

[CheeseKing]

I don't know if this is an issue or something a lot of you know or not... the average person out there goes to work and recieves pay. If you do not give 10% or higher, you will be stealing from the Lord. Your money is the Lord's money and you should be happy the Lord doesn't ask for 50%. We should gladly give tithes and offerings to the Lord, for scripture states we should.

Malachi 3:8-10 "'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! but you say, 'In what way have we robbed you?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,' Says the Lord of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to recieve it.'"

[SaintSean]

Whoa, whats this? Guy gets a green circle by his name and a lofty title and he's making threads now demanding we be obdient to titheing.

J/k

I agree Cheeseking, Though ye must provide more scripture to your support; for the sinful man will easily weave around that OT passage tooken out of context.

Is NT tithing unscriptual?
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The scripes and Pharisee's verily did right by tithing, but they neglected the moral law God also established. Jesus rebuked them, and said they should not have left the other undone. Should we also suffer such a rebuke on the same contrary grounds? Following the moral law but breaking the tithing one? nay but verily let us obey God in hearts and wallets, for if a man will not surrender his bank account to God, no way will he surrender his "true" inner man. For even Satan himself hath spoken wisdom when he saith

Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

in conclusion tithing is scriptual from man points in scripture that time will not afford me to illustrate right now. Let God lead you to do the required and beyond. Godbless and good job bringing the subject up cheeseking.

[CheeseKing]

:) I didn't prepare much, sean. I'm not one to plan things out, but thatnkyou for posting more supporting information. That is true, the man wanting to go against tithes would be able to tackle one verse, but when they see both the old and new testament tells the same truth with seperate verses, they will find it harder to go against. Have a good one.

[zarxs]

Here is one I thought was interesting...

The Temple Tax

Mt 17:24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax ?”
Mt 17:25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.
When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?”
Mt 17:26 “From others,” Peter answered.
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him.
Mt 17:27 “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

This is a tax from the Temple rather than a Tithe but it illustrates ministers do not need to tithe. At least that is my interpretation of it. I'd like to hear others comments on it.

[Potters House]

I like the KJV of the same scripture. Its more to the point." What thinkest thou Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?" Peter saith unto him, "Of strangers. "Jesus saith unto him, " Then are the children free". Matt 17:24-25
Jesus is our King. We are the children of God. Tithing is old covenant law, and Jesus paid that debt on the cross. God wants our hearts, not our money. We are to help the widows and orphans. Not make car payments for some hireling that went thru seminary, so he could have a paycheck , and build another building.
Why is it Paul never metioned tithing? Only collections for other saints?

"Ye also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy preisthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL sacrifices, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 2:5
Where does it say in the new covenant that we are supposed to tithe? It is old covenant law.

[SaintSean]

God wants our hearts, not our money.

With all due benvolence and respect my sister..

This sounds like an excuse. It is not "our" money to begin with, but rather his, so it is with everything in this world. How could we not give atleast what God requires of this? How else is the house of God supposed to survive? How are missions funded? I am far from the propsperity, be farmer for a service sowing seeds heresey. That hebrews scripture really had less to do with titheing but more of our praise. And let us compare scripture with scripture my dear lady..

1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

A tithe is not an offering, neither are alms. Offerings are things of our own free will right? We "offer" them, tithe's are commanded of God.
Deut 14:22-THOU SHALT TRULY TITHE ALL THE INCREASE OF THY SEED, THAT THE FIELD BRINGETH FORTH YEAR BY YEAR

Faith without works is dead..nah rather let us show our faith by our works ;)

[sogjohn]

With all due benvolence and respect my sister..

This sounds like an excuse. It is not "our" money to begin with, but rather his, so it is with everything in this world. How could we not give atleast what God requires of this? How else is the house of God supposed to survive? How are missions funded? I am far from the propsperity, be farmer for a service sowing seeds heresey. That hebrews scripture really had less to do with titheing but more of our praise. And let us compare scripture with scripture my dear lady..

1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

A tithe is not an offering, neither are alms. Offerings are things of our own free will right? We "offer" them, tithe's are commanded of God.
Deut 14:22-THOU SHALT TRULY TITHE ALL THE INCREASE OF THY SEED, THAT THE FIELD BRINGETH FORTH YEAR BY YEAR

Faith without works is dead..nah rather let us show our faith by our works ;)
SaintSean, what do you mean by the 'House of God'? Does it require man made money to survive?

[SaintSean]

I agree with your corrections john, let me choose better words.

By house of God I ment the Local Church. As with any building, it requires funds. Not in the sense it depends on man, but rather it depends on God, who with his power using his people(professed christians) to keep it afloat. Not with basketball gyms and coffe shops. But rather the neccessaties.

It can be noted many a man, even Joab, Abner, and Saul donated spoils to help "maintain the temple". And thats not at all to say that ones tithe's have to be to a local church either. I haven't paid my tithe's to a local church because i am not a member of one. But rather to ministries, missions, etc. But the Lords work should be funded by his people.

[Potters House]

My dear brother Saint Sean,
There seems to be some confusion between the concept of tithing 10% and supplying the needs for the body of Christ, which may not be monetary. The book of Hebrews states flatly that tithing is old covenant law.
"And verily, they that are of the sons of Levi,...have commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law.....Heb 7:5."
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. "Heb 7:12
"For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw nigh to God." Heb 7:18-19
If we are to fulfill this part of the law, which other ones are we to continue?
The 10% tithing is part of the 501C-3 which has packaged the church into services, instead of us being servants.
You yourself SaintSean have stated you do not tithe. Are you therefore robbing God? I think not.
It is a pity there are believers that feel the 10% they pay is sufficient, and they need do nothing else. Those of us that are able, can do much to spread the good news of the Kingdom. Some with finances, and some with their time, which I believe is more valuable. A Christian Amazonian Indian, with no money, cannot send part of his paycheck to the Southern Baptist Convention to pay for a new office chair. He can however, roast up a chicken to feed a orphaned child. Was this chicken one of ten that he had? Or was it the only one? It doesn't matter. What matters is that he saw a need and was able to fulfill that need out of a humble heart.
Nowhere in the NT does it say we are to build churches surrounding a manmade organization. According to the Biblical picture, the body of Christ doesn't need to OWN anything. Especially real estate. Yet the tithing recieved and required by the heads of these denominational franchises goes to maintain and perpetuate these businesses. Very little trickles down to the missionarys.
Like you Saint Sean, we are not members of a church, and we do not tithe. In fact, we don't even go to church. What we do is pay the rent for a commercial building used to collect clothing, food and medicine for the poor in Mexico. Is this 10% of our income? What difference does that make? It is a need that we saw that we could meet. It is operating with no church involvement. But the hands and feet of people that have the time to give to the Lord, to see to the needs of his people. It has nothing to do with tithes, it has everything to do with the hearts of his servants.
Wouldn't it be great to go to church on Sunday morning, and have the pastor direct everyone into the buses with no sermon, or passing of the plate? Everyone unloads at the local rest home to spend the day hugging, loving, feeding, and praying for all the sick and dying elderly in the place?
It won't happen. The sheep might be uncomfortable having to actually do something they are not accustomed to. Their walk has been coming faithfully to church on Sunday and giving their 10%. And unfortunatly, the pastor is more concerned about how many people showed up today to hear his sermon on tithing.
I think its time for us to stop giving 10% of our income to a 501C-3 , with the hopes that it trickles down to a missionary, when in fact , we are the missionarys. Its time to quit going to church, and start being the church that Christ is building.

[zarxs]

[QUOTE=I think its time for us to stop giving 10% of our income to a 501C-3 , with the hopes that it trickles down to a missionary, when in fact , we are the missionarys. Its time to quit going to church, and start being the church that Christ is building.[/QUOTE]

Potter, please consider the following verses...

The Temple Tax

Mt 17:24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax ?”
Mt 17:25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.
When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?”
Mt 17:26 “From others,” Peter answered.
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him.
Mt 17:27 “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Now Jesus told us Church workers did not need to pay, so as a Rabbi Jesus considered himself exempt, but he did pay it. Yes he paid it. The modern day temple tax is 10% of your gross income (Tithe). Now if Jesus pays the Temple Tax how can you refuse?

We are not talking about legalism here. If you don't have it no one would knock you for that, but how can you say we shouldn't pay it when Jesus paid it?

As for attending a church... Christians who don't spend time with other Christians easily loose thier way. What's that verse, something like where any two or more of you come together I will be there?

[Potters House]

Greetings brother,
Yes , Jesus paid it, because by not doing so , some might be offended.( And this he did before he went to the cross) I still have not found any reference to tithing under the new covenant. It is old covenant Levitical law. I see no reference to modern day temple taxes in the new covenant.
Know ye not that ye are the temple? How do we give 10% to ourselves?
You stated " the modern day temple tax is 10% of your gross income". And I ask you...according to what? New testament scripture please.
You are right, we are to fellowship, but where is it written it has to be inside a church building? Where two or three are gathered....but only at the Assembly of God, or First Baptist? Whats wrong with the kitchen table? Or the market? Or on a bus? Or the chat room?
Jesus repeatly went into the temple, primarily to confront the Pharisees. Or chase out the moneychangers. He fellowshipped with his disciples outside the building. He taught the multitudes out in the pastures.
Christians who don't spend time in the Word, easily loose their way. We need to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. It is not dependent on spending time with other christians. It is our own responsibility. If I loose my way, its not because of the people I may or may not fellowship with, its because of me. My salvation is not dependent on other christians.
Your Sister in Christ

[SaintSean]

Dear sister potters house: I do repent and ask for forgiveness for my very slack response. I have tarried being carried away of vain things, I do answer now..

You yourself Saint Sean have stated you do not tithe. Are you therefore robbing God? I think not.

Maybe you missed it Ms. Potter, but I stated in an earlier post..
I haven't paid my tithe's to a local church because i am not a member of one. But rather to ministries, missions, etc. But the Lords work should be funded by his people.


I tithe into the "Lords work". I believe maybe you are hesitant to give in unto this because of the extreme abuse now prevalent, and I do not blame you. Most of tithes and offerings given to big churches, sometimes even small, are spent on vain things. But who would be deceived enough to support such ungodly ministries? God's money should go to him. If you have your own ministry, helping the poor, hungry, afflicted etc. Why should you give tithes? YOU ARE DOING THE LORDS WORK. But as you cannot afford that of your own means unless God provides, the same is true with a faithful church. Contrary to popular belief, there are some still around. And they need support from their fellow brothers. And if a man will not give just 10%(and we pay more to the government to our shame) than how can a man give his life unto Christ? I think not. We must further reason on the thoughts of it in scripture. I supposed that Matthew scripture clearly stated the commandment of tithing in the NT, it, as anything in our religion can be misused as "works". Such is no excuse to omit it. I pray we may further reason because I saw a lot of "......." in those Hebrew scriptures :) Thus meaning something is left out, and scripture will say whatever the copy and paster wants it to with proper editing (no offense at all, trust you my sister). Everyone does not have the blessing of God as you potters house to have your own ministry; some of us are just being led by God and need a house of fellowship amongst brethren that will not pay for itself. Regardless of the dross and chaff, the wheat needs what it needs.

Christians who don't spend time in the Word, easily loose their way. We need to work out our own salvation in fear and trembling. It is not dependent on spending time with other christians. It is our own responsibility. If I loose my way, its not because of the people I may or may not fellowship with, its because of me. My salvation is not dependent on other christians.
I totally, and whole heartily agree...

[zarxs]

I provided you with a verse on the subject, it was not particular about "How Much" since that was set by the church (which wasn't 10% - 2 dracmas per person). But Jesus paid it. Jesus felt it should be paid by normal people, he didn't feel he should pay it because he was a Rabbi, since Rabbi's didn't pay it. Now your not a Rabbi or a Minister so you should pay whatever your church sets as a tax. If the church chooses 10% well then they choose 10%. Churches serve a purpose in our Religion that can't be filled by visiting a website.

[zarxs]

Amen Sean.

[TallOne]

I don't know about everyone else but as for me.....I will definatly start locking my car and arming the car alarm before I go into church.......If so many christians din't think a thing about stealing from God they'd never miss a minuite's sleep stealing from me.

[blueheron32]

You are confusing me when you suggest that the temple tax is the same as the tithe zarxs..the two are not connected at all...even if the temple tax was to be paid. that did not eliminate the laws requirement of the tithe....I have never heard of the idea that a rabbi or minister didnt have to live up to the same requirements of the law as any one else...it is true that the priests took their living from the sacrifices....but where do you get the idea that they were not also required to present sacrifices for them selves...and to pay the tithe.. I can see why some people would want to be preachers if that was the case...all getting and no giving.

As for the idea presented here that only the local church is the suitable place of worship for "christians" ...I disagree... It is written...2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? Tell me zarxs...what is a 501 C3 corporation as potters mentioned...but an unholy alliance between what is supposed to be the church of christ and an unbelieving godless government. Where in the bible does it say that the church of christ is to submit itself to the IRS???....How is it that a preacher can prostitute the gospel for the few coins the IRS lets him keep in return for promising to not preach the true Gospel of the Grace of Jesus Christ???? You need to go to the courthouse zarxs and read what is demanded of the "church" in order to not have to pay the two drachma tax?? and only the preachers benefit....Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

worshipping in my home...and fellowshiping with the body of believers here on this website, for the glory of God

blueheron32

[blueheron32]

The tithe is not just levitical law..not just the law of moses...before the law of moses was instituted abraham paid a tithe to Melchisedec....so the principle of the tithe was in place before the law of moses was established. So I think it can be said that the same principal as that stated in galatians can apply to the tithe as well..

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Because we see the principal of the tithe demonstrated before the law was established...then the tithe supercedes the law and is not necessarily revoked when the law came to an end at the cross..

Tithe, literally means "tenth". that is where the idea that we are to give a tenth "of our gross" comes from. But that was not what the lesson of the tithe was intended to teach. The tenth part was a type or figure of the whole. God did not intend for the people to understand that the tenth part was what was owed him..but that they in their entirety belonged to him...thier money their land, their posessions, everything belonged to the Lord and they acknowledged that as they tithed.

Psa 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

In every detail we belong to him...and true believers will freely demonstrate that fact in the way they live their lives before him. This same principal is upheld in the new testament..we read in romans...

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Not just ten percent, All of it. Everything we are belongs to the Lord. We are commanded to present to him every thing we are..even our very bodies, a living sacrifice. It is only reasonable. Even as Abraham gladly gave to Melchisidec, Christ himself, a tenth of the spoils, so we too freely give of ourselves like the poor widow..all that we have.

Back to the Tithe in the Law. In the Law of Moses, the tithe was required. It was Law. For abraham, it was not Law..it was love. When Christ went to the cross, the requirements of the Law were fulfilled. The tithe is no longer a law, except in the minds of those who profit by it. The tithe is for the true believer , love. Not just ten percent, but ALL. Freely given by a heart filled with gratitude and praise, to the one who saves.

So, if you want your tithe of Law....go for it....But I would suggest you come to the cross....and Christ, will show you a more excellent way..

blueheron32

[New_Wineskin]

I don't know if this is an issue or something a lot of you know or not... the average person out there goes to work and recieves pay. If you do not give 10% or higher, you will be stealing from the Lord. Your money is the Lord's money and you should be happy the Lord doesn't ask for 50%. We should gladly give tithes and offerings to the Lord, for scripture states we should.

Malachi 3:8-10 "'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! but you say, 'In what way have we robbed you?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,' Says the Lord of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to recieve it.'"

To whom was Malachi written and about what tithe was he writing ?

The tithe in Malachi was written primarily to priests . The tithe was never about money - "that there may be food in my house" . The house referred to in that passage was the temple in Jerusalem - there is no other building referred to as *His* house .

The tithe that passage refers to is about food . If one looks up the passages on the tithe given to the Israelites , it becomes clear which tithe to which this passage refers . The tithe concerns food that one grows - nothing else . Part of the tithe was for the Levites and priests ; part was for the poor and needy ; and part was for a huge feast in which the person providing the tithe *eats* themselves . *None* of this is being performed by those insisting on the tithe as referred to by Malachi . Why don't people actually study the Scriptures to know this ? Why do they take the pulpiteers' word for it ?

[Led]

There are many things that God said to Israel that still apply for today. We need to determine what is Law and what isn't.

God's plan for tithes is still for today:
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:13-14.

Today we aren't to live by the Law, but to live by the Spirit. In the church today, God still calls His people to support the Pastors. This isn't to be done WHENEVER WE FEEL LIKE IT.

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me. 1 Corinthians 16:1-4.

This is a command according to how you prosper. This isn't just offerings as offerings are not according to how you prosper, but tithe is according to how you prosper.

There's no reason why Mal 3:8 doesn't apply today as it's not the Law. the principle (NOT LAW) goes way back to Abram before he became Abraham, before there was even an Israel to give the Law to. Genesis 14. Tithing is not Law and it's still for today.

[Lance]

Is it God's will to have ‘church stewardship’ so that the church can beat the tax man and the church gets its cut without even bothering to see whether people turn up or not ?

Isn't it time churches concentrated on saving people so that the Holy Spirit will enter people's hearts and they will be motivated to give willingly ? I have no doubt that such churches do exist but there are more of the other kind when guile and deceit are used to extract money from an unwilling congregation.

[Led]

I agree. We should always give cheerfully or not at all. :-)

[greg.cross]

by: Gregory Thurman; given by: GOD; inspired by: Malachi 3:10
© 2004 CMG

Here I am testifying,
to what I've always known-
The God of all creation-
the Maker and Giver to all-
The One who blesses completely,
the One worthy of our tithe!

Are you just a tipper?
oh, you heard me just fine!
Are you just a tipper,
to our God Almighty?
He just asks for a tenth,
of all He gives to you!
But is it your practice,
just to give God a tip?
- You know -
Pennies on His dollar!

Is God the last thing?
you know-the last thing,
On your list to pay?
Do you give God, what's left over?
or what's left, jingling in your pockets?
Well then...

God's ready to give you-
give you all He has planned!
All God asks, is that you-
give Him more, than just a tip!
Pennies on HIS dollar!


This song came to mind, after reading the posts, on this thread!

greg.cross

[Rylee]

I thought this post (http://www.christianchatforum.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=1043) would be interesting to reflect upon... it too has to do with tithing, and gives different opinions on whether or not tithing is a requirement.

[greg.cross]

I base my giving to God, not only because God asks us to--But because if it wasn't for God--we wouldn't have the money, to tithe with. All things come from God, and God puts that choice out there, to see who will abide to Him, or to what was never ours to begin with.
God asks for only 10%--He could just in a blink, take it all--but He allows us to make the decision to honor Him and thank Him, for all He has,will give to us!
It blew the minds of my friends when they heard that I give God 90%, of all my income/royalties--and survive on the remainder, 10%! I wasn't compelled to, in order to have God, give me more. I can only say that for all God has given me-His Son, Jesus--I could never give enough to equal God's giving to us, but if I can help foundations and ministries spread the love of Jesus- that's the commission I love to fulfill! And, even though I pay myself 10 %-- I've never wanted for anything! God blesses me in my ministry, and I hope that it continually gets bigger and bigger--cause then I'll be able to give more, to better God's kingdom!

Do it without expectation of getting,

God does so bless!

greg.cross

[evelyn]

People of God help with this , i attend one church and they always teach about giving ten percent of your monthly income to church for the work of God to carry on , however the problem is that preachers always preachers that if don't pay tithe that means you are not full members of the church. I have been attending that church for the last three years and now feel as if am living in disobedience . i don't work neither do i have my on money that i work hard for , the only money that i get is benefits that comes in my name. The other money in my family comes from my husband. The question is MALACHI SAYS WE SHOULD 10% that we work for or else we would be robbing God , Do i take what my husband worked for and give to church even though my husband doesn't go to church with me?

[blueheron32]

Only if your husband agrees to it...evelyn..

And I would wonder about a preacher or a church that demands that you pay, to be a "full" member of that group.....

I could think of a number of different options for you to support with your prayer and money, and time, than a preacher that is always preaching that you should give him your money....

We are to be a giving people... and each is to give, according to his ability...and use the wisdom God has given us to determine where we will give...

blueheron32

[larry]

Dear Evelyn, the first thing I would do is leave that meeting and find one that preaches the whole council of God and not just collecting money. The following quote from you makes me know for sure they are trying to force you into giving out of necessity, or of having to. Necessity also means out of your need.

As far as being a full member of the church, they have a view like those that were called of Apollos, Paul, and some of Christ. They are wrong. All believers in Christ belong to the CHURCH which is the body of Christ, and it doesn't depend on your tithe. Like Blue Heron told you, make sure your husband is in agreement with anything you give.

Quote you said: preachers always preachers that if don't pay tithe that means you are not full members of the church. I have been attending that church for the last three years and now feel as if am living in disobedience . i don't work neither do i have my on money that i work hard for , the only money that i get is benefits that comes in my name.

I posted this response to a thread titled "Giving Back His Money" on this chat board, but feel you need this too.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. "But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:"

I have valued the following teaching on giving and hope it is of comfort to all who struggle with this. The following is a portion of a lesson of a marriage seminar given by Pastor Gene Hawkins titled "Circles of Responsibility" at Grace and Glory church. "gracegod.com"

Now I'd like to illustrate this point in the way that God has given us to handle money. Now there are different ministers that I have talked to that when I say you must put your family before the ministry, the first thing I hear is oh no, God has to be first. I will agree wholeheartedly God has to be first, but there is a difference in God and ministry. This is the distinction that we have to make and scripture is very plain on this matter. I'd like to illustrate it with money.

The first area of responsibility that we have with money is in the tithe. God plainly tells us there in Malachi chap. four that if you spend the tithe and don't give it to God, then you have robbed God. The first fruit belongs to God and that's the same thing with our own personal lives. We must dedicate the first part of ourselves; our love, our adoration, our affection, and our devotion. All of that must be given to God Himself. I'm not talking about the ministries He has given us to do; I'm talking about God as a person and dedicating these things to God as to who He is. So our first responsibility with money is to give the tithe directly to God. Now men may receive it, but it is God that we are giving it to.

The second area of responsibility and you can compare this with (1 Tim. 5:8) "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." After the tithe has been given to God, then that money must be dedicated and earmarked for the family, and what I am saying is this: it is not right to give money to the church that rightfully belongs to fulfilling the needs of the family. Now there are some ministers and again I have a problem with the way some of these professional fundraisers get money because they are not scriptural. They try to get people to step out by faith, and if you give this money I guarantee the Lord will bring it back to you. I want to tell you a very simple operation concerning money. If God gives you money for a certain thing and you don't spend it on what He gave it to you for, you're going to have a need in that area. So if He gives you the money to pay your rent and you become very spiritual and say oh we'll give it to the church; don't be surprised if your rent ain't paid. God isn't bound to pay your rent after He gave you the money to pay your rent and you proceeded to give it somewhere else. We cannot do that all in the name of: well the Lord is surely going to come in for this. So it's not right to give money to the church which rightfully belongs to the family. It cannot be given to other members of the body of Christ when our own family is suffering and needs that money.

I want to notice one more example here that Jesus gave in this area where that you don't give money to the church that properly belongs to the family. Back in the time of the Jews in (Mark 7:11) Jesus was denouncing the Pharisees because they were taking gifts of money and giving it to the temple and they called it Corban, but the money they were giving was money they should have been giving to take care of their parents. So they were shirking their responsibility to their parents to take care of them, and they were giving it to the temple and Jesus said that is not right. You need to give that money where it belongs and take care of your parents first.

The third area of money is the church or household of faith. (Gal. 6:10) "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, (The context of this is in regard to money, so as we have opportunity let us do good unto all men but with this proviso: this takes the priority above all men and it is this) especially unto them who are of the household of faith. So we have this money and we give our tithe to the Lord, we meet the needs of the family and then if we have other monies we are free to help other members of the body of Christ.

Here last year I doing some work for a neighbor of mine trying to get his house done and I had money in addition to what I normally take from the church; it was just all free and clear, and there arose a medical need in a family of the church who didn't have any insurance. The Lord spoke to my heart and He said I want you to give this entire two week check which amounted to a sizeable sum of money to them; okay, no problem, I did not rob my wife of anything to give that money to those people. That was mine free and clear; I wasn't taking it away from anybody else and I gave it to that family. I didn't look for any big increase or windfall and haven't seen it; it was given simply because God said to do it and it was mine to do with as He said to do it, but I did not rob from the family in order to do that.

Right after the Oklahoma bombing I felt deeply moved and grieved and we didn't have a whole lot of money; we did send an offering from the church, but I felt like I wanted to do something in a personal way so I talked to my wife and didn't demand of her but asked, would be alright with you if we forego our date-night for a month and the money we would have spent on our date-night we will give to these people down in Oklahoma after the bombing? fine she said, wonderful. So that's exactly what we did, but we didn't rob anybody else in order to do that, and so this is what I'm saying: don't ever take anything away from the family and give it to the church. It belongs to them and that includes our time and everything.

Now then, the forth area regarding money. ((Gal. 6:10) "Let us do unto good to all men." Once we've taken care of the immediate needs of the church, then we are free to give to all men if we have any left. This refers to the rest of the world and those without the household of faith; these are the last in our order of responsibility to help and that means with our time, with our money, with our commitment or anything of this nature. The world gets what's left as exactly as it should in our lives before the Lord. So we must establish the right priorities in our marriages, because if we don't we are going to be robbing from the family which rightfully belongs there.

God bless you and hope this is a help in Jesus' name - larry

[Brad]

The Idea of tithe (means a tenth) comes from the OT. First mentioned in Gensis 14:20. Later it was written down as a law Deu. 14:22. Mainly the tithe was of farm products. These farm products were meant to support the Levite Tribe, whom God set apart to take care of the religious duties. What is important to note is that what is tithed is a persons "increase" (Deut. 14:22; Proverbs 3:9). In the NT tithing is mentioned in Jesus' rebuke to the Pharisees is that their obsession with their interpretation of the law. As with going overboard in their tithing. That they have put aside the more important law of "judgement, mercy and faith, and love of God" (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42). There is also the true story of Jesus observing people tithing money at the temple. A poor widow came in put in a small amount of money. But Jesus said that she in put in more than all the others. Because she had put in much of the little she had, whereas, others had put in a little of the much they had (Mark 12:41-12:44). The lesson being its not how much money one gives. It is all about the spirit in which it is given. Paul wrote let each person give according to the motive in their heart (2 Cor.9:7). It is not the quanity that matters but, why a person gives out of what they have. You said you were living off benefits. I'm a 100% disabled veteran receiving benefits from the VA. I know they give just about the exact amount you need to survive on. I don't see that as an increase in your income. As for your husbands income that is up to him to decide not the church.

[pop james]

matters not evelyn how our gifts to the church are generated ie: your husbands wages....the system of tithing is a system set up in another age....under an old law....read matt 23:23 and see what JESUS told the jewish leaders about their tithes. He admonishes them for being so precise with their giving. Tradition tells us that they would weigh out as close as possible to a tenth for sake of law.....but JESUS told them they neglected the important things... that being... mercy, justice and faith.
It's not how much we give to the church or how we get it or when we give it....it is the state of our hearts......our cheerful attitudes and understanding.....or thanksgiving at being able to give.....and also we should leave what...how much...why...when..how often etc we give between us and GOD......GOD will bless your giving evelyn if you remember these things.....oh my! dont get caught up in what ambitioius,zealous,legalistic preachers tell you about the "rules" of tithing for there are none for this new covenant age except to be a cheerful giver........Pop

[Iamclay]

Dear Evelyn: God's word tells us plainly that tithing is LEVITICAL LAW! ( see Hb 7:5-18) You might ask this "shepard" how a newly saved aboriginal in Papau New guinie pays a "tith", as he describes it...and to whom? How about a believer in a United Nations refugee camp, where all they might posess is the blue plastic tent given then by a humanitarian worker? To whom does his tithe go? As I read Gods word I find nothing about the body of Christ owning anything to pay for, hence the need for an income to it for any reason. The scriptures regarding tithing in the old testament are Levitical law based...nailed to the cross(Col 2;14), "blotted out, and taken out of the way"! Our relation ship with the Lord should not be facilitated by guilt. Please, Evelyn pray about whether or not you should stay in that "church", and under the instruction of .."an hireling..."(Jn 10:11-13)

...clay

[sharingthegoodnews]

Evelyn,


Under the Law given to ancient Israel, tithing was a means of supporting the tribe of Levi and caring for needy ones. (Leviticus 27:30; Deuteronomy 14:28,X**X29) The sacrificial death of Jesus abolished the Law and its tithing requirement. (Ephesians 2:13-15) In the early congregation, the pattern was for each Christian to give according to his means and as he resolved in his heart. (2Corinthians 9:5, 7) (Romans 6:14)

There is a fine example in Luke Chapter 8 of Christian women giving material assistance to Christ and his apostles so that the Christian ministry might continue from village to village and city to city. In the third verse it states that these women were “ministering to them from their belongings.” It doesn't say monitarily.

Those ministering within the congregation should support themself as did Jesus and his disciples. (Acts 18:3; 1Cor. 4:12; 1Thess. 2:9) Like the widow, realizing her two coins of small value would make little difference the material well-being of the temple and those serving there. She wanted to show herself thankful to God, not to men serving there. The money wasn't for profit but for caring for the temple. Great example for Christians today. (Luke 21:1-5)

Evelyn, do you really believe that the preachers of your church are living according to what is written in the Bible? Are they teaching correctly what Christ taught? Please read the scriptures noted by all and pray for God's Holy Spirit to guide you.

Linda

[Tee828]

I have a real concern about any Pastor telling you that tithing makes you a full member of the Church, that is not true by the Lord's standards. That is a man-made rule by some, but not the Lord. You are a member of the Church of Jesus Christ the day you give your life to Him. Neither tithing nor not tithing can change this fact.

Larry is so right, God loves a cheerful giver. Tithing/giving is a matter of the heart, not the mind or the wallet. The first time I was taught about tithing, I couldn't afford to pay the bills I had with the 3 jobs I was working, but out of an obedient heart I tithed because I truly wanted to please the Lord. I thought I would struggle, but soon after, the Lord opened doors like never before. I am a living witness of "not having room enough to receive it." You keep praying and seeking the Lord's face, not the face of prosperity preachers, or money changers.

The Storehouse/Church is supposed to be a place where the needs of the less fortunate can be met (bring all the tithes...so there can be meat in my house..) God doesn't need meat nor money, but He knows that His children do and that is how we help one another. The Ministry I belong to uses the money to buy people clothes, help pay their mortgage/rent when someone loses a job, has a food bank, funds for daycare, couseling, etc., etc. and our Senior Minister does not take one dime, but works for a living and uses their income to help fund the outreaches. That is what I believe the tithe should be used for, not lining someone's pocket to buy a private jet to preach prosperity and collect more money. Forgive me if I am starting to sound hostile, but I have a real problem with people spending the Lord's money for personal gain while others in their church or starving. Ok, I will get off the soap box now.

The Holy Spirit is your guide and he will lead you into all truth. I am praying for the Lord to give you peace and guidance.

God Bless

[faithful_martin]

I came from a traditional church denomination who didn't teach me about returning tithe (instead of giving or paying).

Since 2002 I began to worship at a pentacostal charismatic church, which is modern, yet keep the good teaching at its place.

What I learn about returning tithe is that through it we practice OBEDIENCE TO GOD, rather than to our religious leaders.
So, as I gladly joyfully thankfully put my the into the tithe envelop into the tithe offering bag, and then we all pray for the people who will organize it, I know right there and then, that I have settled my duty of obeying HIM.
i do not care how my church's people use it; so far I can see the evidence on how it is used. the church can run more ministries to save the lost souls and to save more people and win them for Jesus. The church building is more and more comfy too. We have now 3 large LCD screen for the song/ praise lyric, and TV sets for the same purpose in all corners of the church/ worship room (for your information, our worship room seats 2,500 in one service and we have 5 services every Sunday to seat the 14,000 members on the list).
So, we the congragation members can see the evidence of the efforts of extending the tent of God.

Back to understanding of tithe as a lesson or teaching of obedience, it has no relationship with membership.
It is your conscience you're dealing with.
Once you get money , either from your own income or from your husband as the head of the household/ family, you should remember it is the blessing God has given you.
Where will you bring the tithe to? Which church?
I bring my tithe to the church who has shepherded me. It is only natural and logical that as I am spiritually fed there so I have my commitment with my spiritual home.

then, it doesnt matter wheher your husband goes to church or not.
What is clear is : You have received blessings from God. If He wants your obedience in the form of returning the 10 percent, do you mind?
God bless you as much as you can contain.

Please remember, the "how much" is not very important in returning tithe.
It is your "Yes, Lord" reply and action of returning His tithe that maters.

God bless you.

[evangelist]

But the tithes is a must according to it's teaching!
It is no less and no more than 10%!
It is not about a cheerful giving but a must give in demand, and what belong to God in the first place so we can't chose or make a choice about doing it.
Either we love God with the tithes or we hate God.
It is also taught to those who don't tithes your prayers are not answered and it makes no sense to pray because a thief who doesn't repent in not paying tithes is still a sinner in rebellion against God.

So we are already under condemnation as tithes theives, and robbers of almight God.
So what do you think about tithes now?

[evangelist]

C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\CMoore\Eigene Dateien\Truth About Tithing.htm

here is a good teaching on tithes

[Rufus]

But the tithes is a must according to it's teaching!
It is no less and no more than 10%!Where does the Bible say this?
It is not about a cheerful giving but a must give in demand, and what belong to God in the first place so we can't chose or make a choice about doing it.
Should we cut this verse out?:
"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." - 2 Corinthians 9:7

Either we love God with the tithes or we hate God. Suggesting that people hate God because they don't interpret this doctrine the same way you do is...well...lame.

It is also taught to those who don't tithes your prayers are not answered and it makes no sense to pray because a thief who doesn't repent in not paying tithes is still a sinner in rebellion against God. Where?

So we are already under condemnation as tithes theives, and robbers of almight God.Where?
So what do you think about tithes now?
I think I hear a lot of statements without scripture to support these statements.

[Rufus]

C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\CMoore\Eigene Dateien\Truth About Tithing.htm

here is a good teaching on tithes

We do not have access to your hard drive. You may be confusing this site with an NSA chat board.

[Brucea]

A tread came to the top from the beginning of the year. It started with All Christian should tithe today or they are robbing God. It always amazes me that one starts with the 3rd chapter and the 8th verse of Malachi! Can we back up one verse please?
Malachi 3:7 Yet from the days of your fathers You have gone away from My ordinances And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," Says the LORD of hosts. "But you said, 'In what way shall we return?'

The children of Israel had left the ordinances of the law. Let us go forward to the New Covenant.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If Christ has freed us from the ordinances on what authority can you bring us back under the law?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

If I'm justified by my giving of tithes I'm no longer trusting in the completed work that Jesus did on the cross. It is through one man's obedience many will be made righteous. Romans 5 Look for the "much more" in the chapter.

If one would like to know how to give in this New Covenant I suggest reading 2 Corinthians chapters 8 & 9.

[DanV aka FreetoloveGod]

When we compare the Old Testament teachings on "tithing" with "giving" in the New Testament, we find there is a vast difference. Under the Old Testament law the people were forced to give. Under grace, a Christian gives because he loves to give.

Now and again, the question comes up, "How much should a believer give to the Lord?" Give in accordance to how God has allowed you to prosper, but whatever the amount--God says "if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have." - 2 Corinthians 8:12.

God not only considers what we give, but what we keep as well, and we are responsible to him for it all. He tells us too, that "he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully." - 2 Corinthians 9:6

Christian giving should not be done for the sake of reward, but God promises a reward to those who give liberally out of a heart of love. One who really loves the Savior and His work usually gives with a cheerful heart. It is just as natural for that person to give as it is for the sun to shine.

God Bless.

[Bouncinstar]

James 1:17 KJV Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Every good and perfect gift comes from above. We are not owners but stewards of the resources the Lord graciously places at our disposal.
Think for a moment about the blessings you enjoy on a daily basis. Have any of us duly considered how much we have to be thankful for? What do you possess that didn't, ultimately, have its origins in God, our Creator? Wealth, power, prestige, whatever you have, at its source it didn't start with you but with God, who created all things... How important that we never forget that truth!

When we have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, we will recognize Him as Lord of all our resources... for all our resources have come only from Him and certainly not from ourselves. We, then, are stewards, not owners, and as stewards we identify ourselves with the Master, whose goods we have been given to oversee. We must accept the responsibilities of a steward and act in our Master's stead.

We should dwell on Christ's words, "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Where's your heart? What does your answer tell you about yourself and where your treasure is? Is it time to transfer your account?

Thanks for letting me rattle on... God Bless, Lisa

[FreetoloveGod aka DanV]

The faithful giver is laying up treasures in Heaven. At that time, we shall be rewarded, not only for our giving, but for all that we have done in the body.

FreetoloveGod

[pop james]

Fact is...........We will be rewarded for ALL that CHRIST is.......our works are important as far as obedience.....but the fact is our righteousness is as filthy rags.......what did John witness from the elders at the throne....they were casting their rewards(crowns) at the feet of JESUS......why?....because they(rewards) are truly HIS..... for without JESUS we are and can do...nothing............regards ....Pop

[xtraordinary]

I struggle w constantly giving snce Im wrkg prt time lke once or twice a mnth gvg my time volunteering two places nd somethings wrg w this pic. Am I beng selfish? I make 120. mnth myb. strglg rtist

[Smith04]

Jesus was born "under the law"(Gal. 4:4) so while he was living under the law he didn' break the law. He even commanded his apostles to "observe and do" (Matt. 23:3) meaning the law of Moses. Jesus's testament wasn't put into effect until after his death. "For where there is a testament,there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." (Heb. 9:16-17) The old testament law is "obsolete"(Heb. 8:13) that includes the practice of tithing which is under the old law. According to the New testament we are commanded to "lay by him in store, as God has prospered him."(1 Cor. 16:2) Under the new testament we are not commanded to give a specific amount, so according to 1 Cor. whether we give more than 10% or less 10% it is not wrong. What's important is how we give "Not grudgingly or of necessity" (2 Cor. 9:7) Jesus's testament is about the spirtual aspects of life and not the physical that is why it is a " better covenant" (Heb. 8:6)

[crossway7]

I read your old posting on tithing good to see your walking in truth. We who see give our hearts our all not 10%. Actually it is a curse when trying to keep the law and not all the law. With tithing people should ask Gods chosen people a Jewish person if they tithe. Their answer will suprise you. No!
I like the KJV of the same scripture. Its more to the point." What thinkest thou Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?" Peter saith unto him, "Of strangers. "Jesus saith unto him, " Then are the children free". Matt 17:24-25
Jesus is our King. We are the children of God. Tithing is old covenant law, and Jesus paid that debt on the cross. God wants our hearts, not our money. We are to help the widows and orphans. Not make car payments for some hireling that went thru seminary, so he could have a paycheck , and build another building.
Why is it Paul never metioned tithing? Only collections for other saints?

"Ye also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy preisthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL sacrifices, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 2:5
Where does it say in the new covenant that we are supposed to tithe? It is old covenant law.

[mgoblue]

wow....these people need to relax a little.

I appreciate your honesty about your situation. Obviously it is very difficult to give anything when money is tight. I can't imagine trying to live off of what some people do and still give money away. Many people are in the same boat as you and it is not as easy as everyone is making it seem! Furthermore, many people are scared of the church because they think the church is obsessed with getting your money and a lot of times people leave because of Tithing. I agree with the many people that God both asks us for a tithe and that it is important part of learning to trust God and give back what is His already. This is a discipline that is definitely learned though, and for some it takes a great deal of time and trust. Sometimes it just takes a leap of faith and trust that God will provide you with what you need. Sometimes we can get so caught up with tithing that we foget that God cares for us and that for some people tithing can be one of the most difficult things to do. Just as many other people struggle with other issues, tithing can be extremely difficult. I truly believe that God will reward your faithfulness in tithing in these difficult times. It might be something that you battle your whole life. I am hoping that you will trust in God's promises that he will take care of you and always give you what you need.

[stanleyg]

I don't know if this is an issue or something a lot of you know or not... the average person out there goes to work and recieves pay. If you do not give 10% or higher, you will be stealing from the Lord. Your money is the Lord's money and you should be happy the Lord doesn't ask for 50%. We should gladly give tithes and offerings to the Lord, for scripture states we should.

Malachi 3:8-10 "'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! but you say, 'In what way have we robbed you?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,' Says the Lord of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to recieve it.'"
If one is paying tithes to the Church as a ritual, rather than contributing an offering from his or her heart, then I wonder if its acceptible to God.

Mark12 (http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4581041)
[38] And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
[39] And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
[40] Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
[41] And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
[42] And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
[43] And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
[44] For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Matt23
[23 (http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=scribes+and+Pharisees%2C+hypocrites%21+for+ye+p ay+tithe+&restrict=All&size=First+100)] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Amen!

[KJV]

The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). The Christian church has essentially taken the 10% figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. However, Christians should not feel obligated to always tithe. They should give as they are able, “in keeping with his income.” Sometimes that means giving more than a tithe, sometime that may mean giving less than a tithe. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Each and every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom as to whether to participate in tithing and/or for how much he or she should give (James 1:5). “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

[southerntorahgirl]

i agree with you on the 10% but, i think God requires more, in deut 26:12 it tells us that "after you have given all the tithe of your increase, in the third year, you shall give it to the levite, the stranger, orphan, widow," so i believe we are commanded to take care of the poor as well... what do you think?
i can give you numurous scriptures if you are interested..

[jeps901]

Malachi 3:8-10 "'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! but you say, 'In what way have we robbed you?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,' Says the Lord of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to recieve it.'"

Does this apply to the post ressurrection Church? If it does, call the Levitcal Priesthood back because they need to receive what rightfully theirs. Lets use this is portion of scripture in context and see what we come up with. Tithing is a biblical ordinance established and kept by Israel and God. There is no where in the New Testament that states that the followers of Christ are bound to the ordinance of the Tithe. If you look at Matherw 23:23 Jesus is a Jew funtioning as a Jew in the Old Testament Temple system. The New covenant doesn't begin until the Book of Acts. From Acts through Revelation there is no scripture requiring christians to pay a Tithe. If you as a beleiver want to give a tithe that's great, and I'm sure the Lord honors that, but to state that it is an ordinance established by the Lord for us (NON JEWS) is totally wrong. In 2 Cor 8 Paul lays out a template for giving, tithing is no where in this. There are some christinans who sincerely can't afford to give 10% of their income, why would the Lord force his people in to poverty?
Before I end this I want to ask a question. In the Gospel's, Jesus told his disciples to render to Ceasar what was Ceasars and render to God what is God's. With that being said, Why doesn't the Church pay taxes?

[Loonieburger]

The Church does pay taxes. You and I pay a variety of them, especially me since I'm in Canada. ;)

Organized, legal, religious groups which are recognized as such under Canadian and American law are tax-exempt because we don't live under Caesar. We, as citizens of (mostly) democratic countries, get to decide the rules for ourselves. We, corporately, decided long ago to ensure that churches who are registered would not pay income taxes so long as they continue to operate within the law. There are guidelines for what churches must do in order to maintain this tax-free status.

[evangelist]

The Church does pay taxes. You and I pay a variety of them, especially me since I'm in Canada. ;)

Organized, legal, religious groups which are recognized as such under Canadian and American law are tax-exempt because we don't live under Caesar. We, as citizens of (mostly) democratic countries, get to decide the rules for ourselves. We, corporately, decided long ago to ensure that churches who are registered would not pay income taxes so long as they continue to operate within the law. There are guidelines for what churches must do in order to maintain this tax-free status.

This is so true.
Does hospital pay taxes?
We are taught the church is also like a spiritual hospital, emergency room in itself.

[Loonieburger]

Hospitals don't pay taxes in Canada, no. All hospitals are public in Canada. This may be hard to believe when you come across private clinics in BC, AB, ON, or QC, but those only exist when the Conservatives are in power so the liberals can talk about how evil they are...

Private clinics, and soon private hospitals, will have to pay taxes, yes.

I have never heard that the church is like a spiritual hospital. Interesting anaolgy, however you can be healed at a hospital as long as someone's footing the bill - no faith needed. ;)

[guiding light]

I don't know if this is an issue or something a lot of you know or not... the average person out there goes to work and recieves pay. If you do not give 10% or higher, you will be stealing from the Lord. Your money is the Lord's money and you should be happy the Lord doesn't ask for 50%. We should gladly give tithes and offerings to the Lord, for scripture states we should.

Malachi 3:8-10 "'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! but you say, 'In what way have we robbed you?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house, and try me now in this,' Says the Lord of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to recieve it.'"
You seem to be overlooking a crucial fact CheeseKing; how exactly does one give money to god? Where do you think money given to a church goes? I think your argument is vacuous and i would like to point out some vital observations i have made; Do you think the Pope is poor? Do you think the heads of any churches live in squalid conditions, wondering where their next (and their childrens') meals are going to come from? Have you ever seen a poor evangelist? All money given up to 'god' is taken by church heads and cynical individuals/ 'God' has no need for money. Any money earned honestly should be used a priori on family as a matter of fact.

[FreetoloveGod aka DanV]

"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will be not be room enough to receive it."

We have to find out whom God is speaking. Is He speaking to the Jew, the Gentile, or the Church of God? - 1 Corinthians 10:32. Just read Malachi 1:1 and you will see that God is definitely writing to Israel.

FreetoloveGod

[evangelist]

"If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will be not be room enough to receive it."

We have to find out whom God is speaking. Is He speaking to the Jew, the Gentile, or the Church of God? - 1 Corinthians 10:32. Just read Malachi 1:1 and you will see that God is definitely writing to Israel.

FreetoloveGod

Would that also be us the church of God because we are adopted Jews grafted to the Jewish and Isreal ´family tree??

[FreetoloveGod aka DanV]

"Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.
- 1 Corinthians 10:32.

The Jews are those who are descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve tribes of Israel. All the other nations of the world are the Gentiles, the second mentioned class. Then there is the Church, which is that group of believers, both Jews and Gentiles, who by personal faith have received the Lord Jesus Christ and have been born from above.

The Jews are the only ones who were ever commanded to pay tithes. Notice:

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, . . .the tenth one shall be holy to the Lord. - Leviticus 27:30-32.

Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.

Hereafter the children of Israel shall not come near the tabernacle of meeting, lest they bear sin and die.

But the Levites shall perform the work of the tabernacle of meeting, and they shall bear their iniquity; it shall be a statue forever, throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they shall no inheritance.

For the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer up as a heave offering to the Lord, I have given to the Levites as an inheritance; therefore I have said to them, 'Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.' - Numbers 18:21-24.

It's plain to see from these Scriptures that tithing was distinctly a Jewish command and practice. The Jews were to take one-tenth of all their corn, oil, barley, wine, cattle, and one-tenth of their flocks and bring these things to the storehouse adjoining the temple.

FreetoloveGod

[evangelist]

"Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.
- 1 Corinthians 10:32.

The Jews are those who are descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve tribes of Israel. All the other nations of the world are the Gentiles, the second mentioned class. Then there is the Church, which is that group of believers, both Jews and Gentiles, who by personal faith have received the Lord Jesus Christ and have been born from above.

The Jews are the only ones who were ever commanded to pay tithes. Notice:

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, . . .the tenth one shall be holy to the Lord. - Leviticus 27:30-32.

Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.

Hereafter the children of Israel shall not come near the tabernacle of meeting, lest they bear sin and die.

But the Levites shall perform the work of the tabernacle of meeting, and they shall bear their iniquity; it shall be a statue forever, throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they shall no inheritance.

For the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer up as a heave offering to the Lord, I have given to the Levites as an inheritance; therefore I have said to them, 'Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.' - Numbers 18:21-24.

It's plain to see from these Scriptures that tithing was distinctly a Jewish command and practice. The Jews were to take one-tenth of all their corn, oil, barley, wine, cattle, and one-tenth of their flocks and bring these things to the storehouse adjoining the temple.

FreetoloveGod

Would that also be us the church of God because we are adopted Jews grafted to the Jewish and Isreal ´family tree??

[FreetoloveGod aka DanV]

Would that also be us the church of God because we are adopted Jews grafted to the Jewish and Isreal ´family tree??

Is there Scripture that ties this in with tithing?

As we study the Bible, we find that the law of the tithe was given EXCLUSIVELY to the Jewish people. We must always be careful when we study God's Word to find out who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being spoken about. The reason why so many people don't understand their Bibles is that they've never learned how to "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Again, God divides the whole human race into three distinct groups - the Jews, the Gentiles and the Church of God.

The Word of God says in 1 Peter 2:5 that we are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. The Levites offered up dead sacrifices, but today we are called upon to offer up our bodies as living sacrifices to the Lord Jesus Christ who loved us and redeemed us by His own precious blood.

The Jews were told to "bring all their tithes into the storehouse." And the storehouse adjoined the temple at Jerusalem where the Jews brought their field produce and flocks. There is no storehouse in this dispensation of grace. There is no tribe of Levi today to receive tithes. The temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. when Titus and his Roman Army came into Jerusalem and scattered the Jews to the four corners of the earth.

FreetoloveGod

[banoboy]

I like the KJV of the same scripture. Its more to the point." What thinkest thou Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?" Peter saith unto him, "Of strangers. "Jesus saith unto him, " Then are the children free". Matt 17:24-25
Jesus is our King. We are the children of God. Tithing is old covenant law, and Jesus paid that debt on the cross. God wants our hearts, not our money. We are to help the widows and orphans. Not make car payments for some hireling that went thru seminary, so he could have a paycheck , and build another building.
Why is it Paul never metioned tithing? Only collections for other saints?

"Ye also as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy preisthood, to offer up SPIRITUAL sacrifices, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 2:5
Where does it say in the new covenant that we are supposed to tithe? It is old covenant law.

If you begrudge the money, then you probably shouldn't tithe. All giving shoud be done voluntarily and joyfully, expecting nothing in return. Otherwise, it's not really giving, is it? More like extortion.

[evangelist]

Is there Scripture that ties this in with tithing?

As we study the Bible, we find that the law of the tithe was given EXCLUSIVELY to the Jewish people. We must always be careful when we study God's Word to find out who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being spoken about. The reason why so many people don't understand their Bibles is that they've never learned how to "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Again, God divides the whole human race into three distinct groups - the Jews, the Gentiles and the Church of God.

The Word of God says in 1 Peter 2:5 that we are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. The Levites offered up dead sacrifices, but today we are called upon to offer up our bodies as living sacrifices to the Lord Jesus Christ who loved us and redeemed us by His own precious blood.

The Jews were told to "bring all their tithes into the storehouse." And the storehouse adjoined the temple at Jerusalem where the Jews brought their field produce and flocks. There is no storehouse in this dispensation of grace. There is no tribe of Levi today to receive tithes. The temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. when Titus and his Roman Army came into Jerusalem and scattered the Jews to the four corners of the earth.

FreetoloveGod

You mention it is for the Jews , so as being an adopted Jews or the churc of God is the today adopted Jews is this true to you?

[jbbaab44]

Some feel that, according to God's direction, the tithe (http://www.churchtithesandofferings.com) must be portioned off to the local church

First, In the early NT all was taken from everyone and all was distributed to everyone. In other words, there is no mention of a ten percent portion going anywhere. Second, The local church is not the representation of the OT storehouse. OT pictures were earthly parables with everlasting meanings. for instance, the OT storehouse is the picture of our eternal storehouse, "lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven, where moth or rust comes or theives can steal". So why should we designate 10% to the local church? Yes we are to be stewards of 100% of it. So in teaching stewardship, why is 10% commanded to store in a false storehouse? You can put 10% into your local church if that's where and what the spirit is telling you to give. But I can guarantee America's glutenous church complexes aren't in that big of a need. I give what i feel is right to my local church, but i do not encourage thoughtless spending with something that wasn't needed. To think about this logically, demanding a guaranteed church income is not the best way to have accountability in spending it. Just look at the government.