Halloween

[Rufus]

As I've shared previously, my wife and I are involved with a foster agency. This agency is a Christian agency but today I received an email inviting foster parents to take their foster children to a "ghostwalk" where they can engage in face-painting, costume wearing and trick or treating.

I loathe all of the Romish "holy days" such as Easter, Christ Mass, Valentine's Day etc. However, I do understand how Christians can be lured into believing that these are Biblical holy days as there is a nice front placed on them that makes them appear Christian.

However, with Halloween there isn't even any pretending as to what it is being celebrated. There is no Christian front, just paganism, death and witchcraft.

Anyway, since this is the season, I thought it might be interesting to start a thread regarding this day and perhaps we can talk about the history of it and the significance of the rituals observed. I would be interested too to hear any arguments for why Christians or churches should participate in these festivities.

[Wendell]

One arguement I have heard, rufus, is..........

It is such a wonderful evangelistic opportunity. People who might never come to church, might come if the church would use halloween as a community outreach event by having a halloween party...

You might think that is absurd, but consider. If my understanding of end time events is correct, and I believe it is..:-) then it makes perfect sense after all. 2 thess chap 2 speaks of a time when the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the churches, and satan will take his seat there and rule in the congregation as if he is God. So in effect, the churches will have Satan as their King, rather than God himself, and they will be worshiping him and not the Lord Jesus...

So.... Is it not perfectly proper for them to use halloween as an evangelistic tool to bring others to worship their "god", on his special day??

blue

[SealedEternal]

One arguement I have heard, rufus, is..........

It is such a wonderful evangelistic opportunity. People who might never come to church, might come if the church would use halloween as a community outreach event by having a halloween party...

You might think that is absurd, but consider. If my understanding of end time events is correct, and I believe it is..:-) then it makes perfect sense after all. 2 thess chap 2 speaks of a time when the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the churches, and satan will take his seat there and rule in the congregation as if he is God. So in effect, the churches will have Satan as their King, rather than God himself, and they will be worshiping him and not the Lord Jesus...

So.... Is it not perfectly proper for them to use halloween as an evangelistic tool to bring others to worship their "god", on his special day??

blue

The word that is translated "Church" in our English Bible is the word “ekklesia” and comes from two Greek words: "Ek" meaning "out" and "Kaleo" meaning call, and this is the verb form. When we put the two together and write the noun form of it, it is Ekklesia and means "a called out ones".

The "called out ones" referred to in the Bible are Christ's elect who He has washed and regenerated through His Spirit. Where in the world does it say that the Holy Spirit will be taken from them and they will begin to worship Satan?

SealedEternal

[Wendell]

In a very narrow sense, yes, the work, ekklesia, Is the elect of God, and is incorruptible.. that "church", will never be overthrown by satan. However in the broader sense, ekklesia, means churches and congregations and denominations throughout the world. That physical structure, that is also the church of God, is not solely the elect of God, they are not made up of only saved people, elect people, but they are made up of the saved and unsaved. To see this one must simply read in the revelation of Jesus Christ, the first couple chapters and look at Jesus testimony to the seven churches...ekklesia.. and you can readily see that already in the first century, corruption was making its way into the church, and the corruptors were very present. Jesus makes strong statements attesting to his displeasure as to what he was finding in those first century churches..

The elect will never be defeated by satan..he will never rule over them..

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

it is not possible to deceive the elect.. but deception will happen to some..

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

this is taking place in the churches... in our day...

If you continue reading in 2 thess chap 2, you can see satan taking his seat in the congregations... If you can see...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If you respond to this, dont be surprised if I dont respond in turn... Im on vacation starting now....:-D I shall return in a couple weeks... and we can pick up where we left off...God bless...

blue

[777truth]

just keep in mind that God often uses mans evil for His good , and also keep in mind that kids dont celebrate the old pagan sowwehn (halloween) they celebrate seeing friends and getting candy . which is a perfect time to initiate a time of fellowship.

[AmericanInUk]

I was not allowed to celebrate Halloween because my parents thought it a pagan practice, not a Christian practice. When I went to university in Boston, Massachusetts I celebrated it for the first time. I believe this was in 1974. I honestly didn't 'get it'. I was also accepting candy from strangers and my parents taught me never accept candy from strangers,lol. When I became a parent, my husband at that time saw nothing wrong with it. I did and refused for him to take the children Trick or Treating.

There was also a division in the church regarding this practice. The church minister and his proponents felt it was a good time to introduce children to the Lord. This caused the opposition to have our own Trick or Treat. We had a gathering over someone's house. No costumes or jack-o-lanterns allowed. Just a simple party with candy and soft drinks, popcorn and cupcakes; and a big illustrated book for children containing biblical stories; and christian videotapes.

The pagan practice of Haloween dates back to ancient Celtic festival of Samhain(prounced sow-in). Celtics lived about 2000 years ago, in an area today known as Ireland. The same country that gave us leprachauns and a lucky 4 leave clovers. On Oct 31,they celebrated Samhain when it was believed the worlds between the living and the dead blurred, and the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to cause damage to their crops.

Celts thought that the presence of other wordly spirits made it easier for the Druids ( a cult that still exists today)or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. To commenorate the event, the Druids built a huge sacred bonfires where the people would gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration they wore costumes made from animal heads and skins. and attempted to tell each other fortunes.

In 43 A.D the Romans conquered Celtic territory and incorporated their practice of worshipping the goddess Pomona. her symbol was an apple. The Romans would ''bob for apples'' (which is still practiced on Halloween). By the 800's Pope Boniface IV designated Nov. 1st as All Saints Day. This celebration was also called All-hallows or All-hallowmas, and the night before it Oct. 31st was called the night of Samhain. This night Oct. 31st began to called All-hallows Eve or Halloween.

There are many places on the internet and in libraries for further information. A good website is: www.history.com/minisites/halloween.

Personally, I don't believe christians should be celebrating Halloween. It's pagan and christianity is not a cult. Christianity is a way of life regardless of what time or century this life is being lived. Christians have/had the bible for guidance in all things. When we( humans) go astray whether in 1900 A.D or 2000 A.D the Word remains the same still teaching us right from wrong. When we are confused or in doubt we pray, and the Holy Spirit intercedes giving us His answer. Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross for us. His blood washed away our sins. I refuse to celebrate a day with it's origins in paganism, especially when it involves spiritualism(communion with the dead; and have 'that' sin present in my life or my family's life.

Sometimes, even the christians be can be lead astray because of man's practices.We get confused because something can seem harmless, such as Halloween;and we have some of church leaders condoning this practice. In, Christ, there is no confusing, but peace. Phil 4:8-9. Paul said '' Finally brethen, whatever is true,whatever is honorable, whatever is just,whatever is pure,whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is anything worthy of praise,think about these things. What you have learned and received about and heard and seen in me,do;and the God of peace will be with you.'' Amen

[m.o.m.]

Hello AinUK,

Very well written post. I think you presented your information better than I have seen it done before.

My experience with Halloween growing up was that it was just a fun holiday...an excuse to have a party and some good times for children and youth. I never experienced it as anything evil; and eventhough I was raised in a Christian home in a small Texas community, I never even heard that anyone thought of it as evil until I was grown.

No one I knew thought or believed their was anything real or true about ghosts, witches and goblins. It was all just childs play.

I tend to be of two minds about this now. On the one hand I believe symbols only have power when we give it to them, i.e. the more we talk about Halloween being evil, the more evil it becomes. On the other hand, I see the point of those about its origin. I have heard the arguements here against many holidays that seem to have their roots in pagan practices; however, I am not sure I see that it is wrong to offer alternatives...which is really where the Christian versions began...just as you mentioned offereing an alternative party for those in your church not comfortable with Halloween.

I don't guess I'm really offering any answers here...just some musings. For the most part, I believe that symbols are symbols, and the power they hold is in the power we give to them; however, you and others have given me much to think and pray and study about.

Thanks again for your post.

m.o.m.

[bliss]

AmericaninUK- kudos to an excellent explanation. This is the best I have seen yet.

I never really knew the history of Halloween. I did do a bit of trick or treating as a child, but I was honestly never comfortable with it, and I certainly am not lacking for all of the years that I didn't particpate. My family was never big on the holiday and my mother would place pumpkins on the front porch, but not carved jack-o-lanterns.

As Rufus mentioned, " However, with Halloween there isn't even any pretending as to what it is being celebrated. There is no Christian front, just paganism, death and witchcraft. "

There are no qualms about what this holiday represents, you see the devil (or what our common image of him is) and witchcraft glorified- children running around with pitchforks and broomsticks. The dead living and walking, vampires and gobblins. Take a look at it really- it's right there in front of you at the local costume store. Regardless of its origins, that is what it represents today.

Please think about this- Would Jesus participate in Halloween and trick or treating? Could you see him in a costume that goes against the word of His father so that he can rejoice in a bag of candy?

[Rufus]

just keep in mind that God often uses mans evil for His good , and also keep in mind that kids dont celebrate the old pagan sowwehn (halloween) they celebrate seeing friends and getting candy . which is a perfect time to initiate a time of fellowship.

If those children are gathering together on or about the same day as Halloween and getting candy then is this not alignment with the Halloween holy day? The trick or treat custom connected with candy is Druidic in origin.

The holy day of Halloween is either an evil holy day or a righteous holy day. If a Christian judges this day to be righteous then it would be logical for this Christian to celebrate the day. If a Christian judges it to be evil then it would be logical for a Christian to abstain from involvement.

What is not scriptural, to me, is to admit that there is evil in this day and participate in the festivities of this day in the belief that God will use evil for good.

"And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just." - Romans 3:8

"Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good." - Romans 12:9

"Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God." - 3 John 1:11

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them." - Jeremiah 10:2

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." - 1 Thessalonians 5:22

[SemperReformanda]

If those children are gathering together on or about the same day as Halloween and getting candy then is this not alignment with the Halloween holy day? The trick or treat custom connected with candy is Druidic in origin.

The holy day of Halloween is either an evil holy day or a righteous holy day. If a Christian judges this day to be righteous then it would be logical for this Christian to celebrate the day. If a Christian judges it to be evil then it would be logical for a Christian to abstain from involvement.

What is not scriptural, to me, is to admit that there is evil in this day and participate in the festivities of this day in the belief that God will use evil for good.


I've been thinking about this a bit since you posted it Rufus and wondering, how do you see this as differing from the logic of the weaker Corinthians (1Co 8)? As far as I can tell it appears to be an almost Identical situation. They were saying hey you cant go eat the meat whos origin is the pagan sacrifices. In the pagan culture the very act of eating that meat is a way of acknowledging the false gods. But Paul's advice is, "hey its cheap meat, you and I both know that there is only one God and your eating cheap meat doesnt change that." But if your eating this meat is gonna cause newer Christians to think that its ok to sin, (acknowledge other gods) then go be vegetarian.(hyperbole of course)

I guess I currently dont see anything different in the situation. "Hey, its free candy, you and I both know that demons arent gods" But, if letting your kids trick or treat is causing other weaker Christians aroudn you to think that its ok to actually commit the sins of the pagans dress up as Gouls, and glorify evil ghosts and spirits, Then go to the supermarket and by a pineapple instead.

Whats your thoughts Rufus?

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
1Cr 8:7 Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Cr 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Cr 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Cr 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Cr 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Cr 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

[SealedEternal]

In a very narrow sense, yes, the work, ekklesia, Is the elect of God, and is incorruptible.. that "church", will never be overthrown by satan. However in the broader sense, ekklesia, means churches and congregations and denominations throughout the world. That physical structure, that is also the church of God, is not solely the elect of God, they are not made up of only saved people, elect people, but they are made up of the saved and unsaved. To see this one must simply read in the revelation of Jesus Christ, the first couple chapters and look at Jesus testimony to the seven churches...ekklesia.. and you can readily see that already in the first century, corruption was making its way into the church, and the corruptors were very present. Jesus makes strong statements attesting to his displeasure as to what he was finding in those first century churches..

The elect will never be defeated by satan..he will never rule over them..

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

it is not possible to deceive the elect.. but deception will happen to some..

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

this is taking place in the churches... in our day...

If you continue reading in 2 thess chap 2, you can see satan taking his seat in the congregations... If you can see...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If you respond to this, dont be surprised if I dont respond in turn... Im on vacation starting now....:-D I shall return in a couple weeks... and we can pick up where we left off...God bless...

blue

The "Churches" are a reference to the people who are gathered together and not the buildings they dwell in. The Holy Spirit dwells within the people as well. Therefore what I am disagreeing with is your assertion that God has removed His Spirit from the "Churches." If you mean the buildings, they never were the temple of his Spirit, so there is nothing to remove. If you are saying that He has removed His Spirit from the people whom He previously dwelled within, then I would strongly disagree. If you're saying that people are prevented from being indwelt with the Holy Spirit because they happen to be in a certain building that calls itself a "church" then I would disagree with that as well.

I agree with your point about the apostasy of our day, and also the fact that most of the modern so-called "churches" (I mean the buildings not the ekklesia) do not contain truly regenerate children of God who are members of Christ's ekklesia.

I think you're misusing the word "church" which is very common in America because we don't have a good equivalent term for ekklesia, and the common use for Church is a misapplication of it. I know the whole thing is confusing due to this, but what you are essentially saying is that born again Christians cannot assemble together with the Holy Spirit present, which I believe is a flawed assertion.

SealedEternal

[777truth]

yes God uses mans evil for his good . ask annas and caiaphas . it could only be evil if it is celebrated as such . but if being with friends in a happy atmosphere is evil then were all doomed . why not use old traditions to spread Gods word ? is there such a thing as an unfit time to spread the Good News? and as a sidenote the history of halloween was a bit off , that was mostly the catholic churches "history , i wont get into it now but its close tho dig a bit deeper , sis.

[Rufus]

That's an excellent scriptural rebuttal Semper and I would feel inclined to set aside the candy issue as a result of it. However, for Christians to, in the pursuit of this free candy, dress up as demons, goblins, ghouls, ghosts, and witches seems to me, like a mockery towards God. Celebrating death when we are the children of the living also seems wrong and doing as the heathen do...I don't know, maybe I'm a weak Christian, but it doesn't occur to me why Christians would want to be like the heathen?

Here's another angle...

This is taken from a Satanic Calendar off of Forbiddenknowledge.com (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_calendar.htm)

"31 All hallow's Eve (Halloween): One of the two most important nights of the year. Attempts are made to break the bond which is keeping the doors to the underworld closed. Blood and sexual rituals. Sexual association with demons. Animal and human sacrifice - male or female."

Thus, if this is true then Halloween is the second most important nights of the year to satanists. Should Christians then have concord with satanists on some of the lesser more important dates?

The days preceding Halloween:

"28 - 30 Satanist high unholy days: Related to halloween. Human sacrifices."

Perhaps St. Winebald Day?:

"7 - St Winebald day: Blood rituals, dismemberment. Animal/human sacrifice."

The extent of my houses participation with Halloween will be to drop tracts in the candy bags of those who knock on my door, anything else just seems like too much cavorting with the enemy.

[SealedEternal]

The extent of my houses participation with Halloween will be to drop tracts in the candy bags of those who knock on my door, anything else just seems like too much cavorting with the enemy.

I agree, although I usually just close the curtains and put a sign on the door explaining that I am a Christian and therefore have no part in the holiday. My hope is that those who profess to be Christians will be convicted and look into the issue more deeply. Perhaps I am overly optimistic.

I also considered putting together a tract about the true nature of Halloween and then ending it with how Jesus Christ can save them from the foolishness of this world. Perhaps most of these children are too young to understand the spiritual warfare, and having parents that raise them to accept all of this stuff it probably won't have much effect. Maybe I should just try to give a simple gospel and avoid the Halloween issue all together. Or just put my sign out again instead and be done with it. Any thoughts?

SealedEternal

[elect lady]

Merchants make their profits off the sales of stuff connected with these days. They shall mourn at the fall of Babylon Revelation 18:11. I had to ask myself when I learned about Christ-mass and Easter, could 99% of Chrisianity be wrong? When I researched out the origins and the traditions associated with these days, I stopped participating in the celebration of them in my home and workplace. The church of which I am a member preaches against them and we are ridiculed for taking a stand against them.

To me they are marks of Catholicism and the harlot daughters. teaching heathen ways, when the Scripture says in Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen.....

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Christmas-Saturnalia
Easter-fertility
Halloween-Samhain
Valentine's Day-Eros

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. I John 5:21 elect lady

[hisredeemed]

This site is extensive.

Halloween is virtually unchanged from it's Druid worship days. And yet some Christians still argue it's innocent.

http://www.nisbett.com/holidays/halloween_christian_perspective.htm

[Jesus Freak]

I feel very strongly about Halloween being a satanic holiday and all, but I don't see any harm if there are kids who do it for the candy and to fellowship with friends as long as they are not dressing up as anything.