baptisim??

[KLA3384]

I know we have to accept Christ as the son of God and our savior, but are we required to be baptised?? Please help me find scriptures about this. The whole reason for my question is because I have a 17 month old son. I am not sure how I feel about organized religion, but I don't want my son to have a strained relationship with God because if this, or him miss out on being baptised if that's what God requires of us.

[JonBoy]

Matt 28 (latter part where Jesus instructs the disciples about their great commission. Mark 16 (again the latter part. Acts 2, Acts 19.

These are just a few. In short yes believers are to be baptised. I am a little concerned about your definitiion of a believer "I know we have to accept Christ as the son of God and our savior, but are we required to be baptised??" I am afraid that you have been influenced by modern day thinking on the subject of Christianity. To be a Christian means to be a disciple, one who follows Jesus Christ, it is a life of obedience to His commands. "Go and make disciples of all nations; BAPTISING them, in the name of the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE TAUGHT YOU.

I am sympathetic to your concerns about organised religion, they are not unfounded concerns, yet Christianity is not an individual thing. Baptism is about being baptised into the body of Christ, the community of God through the Son and in the Holy Spirit. I would encourage you seek out some bible believing Christians.

Also you are not required by the New Testament to get your 17 month old son baptised. The NT instructs you as a believer to be baptised and to then bring up your child in the way of the Lord. When your son wishes to yield his life to Christ for himself it would be appropriate then for him to be instructed in baptism. The NT teaches BELIEVERS BAPTISM, as the scriptures I have given you will show. The pattern is this Repent, believe and be baptised.

Some argue that since baptism does not 'get you saved' (unhelpful terminology) why do we need to do it? This is not the attitude of a DISCIPLE of Jesus Christ. He said "IF you love me, you will obey my commands", obviously this includes the command to be baptised.

The question in all of this is, how much do you want to follow Jesus? All of the way or some of the way? Jesus challenged us to follow Him all of the way.

I hope my straight forward approach has not startled you, its just that there is so much weak Christianity going around and it seems to be unpopular to tell people the truth these days.

I will leave you with this, there are blessings in obedience!!!

God bless.

[Johnno]

Hi KLA

I see Baptism as a joining of one within God's community. Baptism is a sacrament that enables us to be one with God in all creation. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are our example of God in perfect Community, in Baptism we are joined within that perfect community, and , God willing, we become the hands, and voice of God in the World.

I heard a theologian say once that Christ is the sacrament of God in the World, The Church is the sacrament of Jesus, and we are (or should be) the sacrament of the church. In Baptism we are called to continue that unique joining of God with all of His Creation

Johnno

[lovetowrite76]

Acts 2:
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

[Dee]

Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist and God was pleased. Why would Jesus need to be baptised?...He didn't need to be. He was setting an example for all Christians (thus one must be saved) to follow. We strive to be more like Jesus, and being baptised is a public way to show our faith. Do you have to be baptised to go to heaven and be with Jesus? I say no, but we so want to do right in God's eyes and it pleased God when Jesus was baptised, so wouldn't it please God that all HIS were?

[David]

Do we need to be baptised to be saved? no. The Bible teaches all you need to do is believe in Jesus Christ, other than that nothing will keep us from the Father. I also believe that if we believe in Jesus we should want to make him your role model, and Jesus was baptised to show us that this an excellent way to show are love for God. Baptism is not about religion (I do not even like that word), it is about a relationship with the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Is baptism mandatory? No; Is it a good idea? Most definitely YES, baptism is a show of love that brings us closer to the Father and that is an Awesome thing! God Bless you.

[not4gotton]

YES ! you must be baptized to be saved! IT IS a part of the plan of salvation ! Please don't listen to peoples opinions....go to the Word of God for yourself...and pray and ask Him to show you.
Jesus is our example..and as christians we must follow His example...
Jesus was baptized to fullfil ALL righteousness(Matt.1:13-17 KJV) v.15" It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" also Mark 1:9- St.Luke 3:21-John 1:29
Jesus not only set the example for us to follow...He told us also in Matt.28:19-Mark 16:16 (he that beliveth AND is baptized shall be saved;but he that believeth not shall be damned.) St.Luke 24:47 (And that repentance AND remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME (JESUS CHRIST)among all nations,beginning at Jerusalem) Baptism is for the REMISSION of our sins..It is a must ! It is right along with Repentance..you can't have one and leave the other out..Gods plan MUST be fulfilled....Noah had to build the ark exactly like God said or they wouldn't have been saved....and WE MUST obey the plan of salvation exactly like God said.
Acts 2:38 (Repent AND be Baptized EVERYONE of you in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST *for the remission of sins*,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.)
Acts 8:13( Simon believed and was baptized)
Acts 8:16
Acts 19:3 thru 5 also Acts 22:16 (And why tarriest thou?arise,and BE Baptized,*AND WASH AWAY THY SINS* calling on the Name of the LORD.
There are also many other scriptures in the book of Acts showing us how believers were baptized ...seek and ye shall find !
Romans 6:3 and 4 (Know ye not, that so many of us AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into His death? Therefore WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM* BY BAPTISM* into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. WE must be buried into His death by baptism..if we want to be resurrected with Him,and live in newness of life !
Just open your heart and let the LORD Himself show you the way thru His word. EVERYTHING THE LORD DID AND SAID IS VERY IMPORTANT WE CAN LEAVE NOTHING OUT!
If Jesus is our role model we'll want to do the things He did and do the things He says ! I sure hope the person David (who wrote the thread before me)
opens his heart to Gods word...because we cant be saved without having our sins washed away,and remitted.YES BAPTISM IS A MUST !

[OneJoe]

YES ! you must be baptized to be saved! IT IS a part of the plan of salvation ! Please don't listen to peoples opinions....go to the Word of God for yourself...and pray and ask Him to show you.
Jesus is our example..and as christians we must follow His example...
Jesus was baptized to fullfil ALL righteousness(Matt.1:13-17 KJV) v.15" It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" also Mark 1:9- St.Luke 3:21-John 1:29
Jesus not only set the example for us to follow...He told us also in Matt.28:19-Mark 16:16 (he that beliveth AND is baptized shall be saved;but he that believeth not shall be damned.) St.Luke 24:47 (And that repentance AND remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME (JESUS CHRIST)among all nations,beginning at Jerusalem) Baptism is for the REMISSION of our sins..It is a must ! It is right along with Repentance..you can't have one and leave the other out..Gods plan MUST be fulfilled....Noah had to build the ark exactly like God said or they wouldn't have been saved....and WE MUST obey the plan of salvation exactly like God said.
Acts 2:38 (Repent AND be Baptized EVERYONE of you in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST *for the remission of sins*,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.)
Acts 8:13( Simon believed and was baptized)
Acts 8:16
Acts 19:3 thru 5 also Acts 22:16 (And why tarriest thou?arise,and BE Baptized,*AND WASH AWAY THY SINS* calling on the Name of the LORD.
There are also many other scriptures in the book of Acts showing us how believers were baptized ...seek and ye shall find !
Romans 6:3 and 4 (Know ye not, that so many of us AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into His death? Therefore WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM* BY BAPTISM* into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. WE must be buried into His death by baptism..if we want to be resurrected with Him,and live in newness of life !
Just open your heart and let the LORD Himself show you the way thru His word. EVERYTHING THE LORD DID AND SAID IS VERY IMPORTANT WE CAN LEAVE NOTHING OUT!
If Jesus is our role model we'll want to do the things He did and do the things He says ! I sure hope the person David (who wrote the thread before me)
opens his heart to Gods word...because we cant be saved without having our sins washed away,and remitted.YES BAPTISM IS A MUST !

Hello not4gotten, I disagree with you! A person is NOT required to be baptised to obtain salvation. First, if a child dies at birth without ever being baptised, is that child going to hell with no hope because he/she has not been dipped in water? A person repents and turns to God yet dies the day before being baptised in water, does that mean he/she has no hope either?

I will agree that Baptism is required, but NOT the water baptism that you speak of. First, there are two types of baptism. There is water baptism, and there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism that is required for salvation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit, by the blood of Christ that washes away our sins, not the water. Also, you mention that we should follow Christ's example of baptism. Christ's baptism was a symbal or example of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The water sybalized the Spirit washing away our sin. John Baptised with water; however, John said that Christ would baptise with the Holy Spirit(Mat 3:11,Mar 1:8,) and it is this that saves us.

Also, you mentioned Mark 16:16.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I am not sure where you get the idea this scripture was speaking of a water baptism. Rather, this scripture was talking of the Holy Ghost. We must first believe, then we must obtain the Holy Ghost to be saved. The Spirit will wash away our sin, make them as wool so that we are accepted unto God(Eph1:6)(Rom8:9-11). Also, I would like to point that scripture says that if we BELIEVE NOT then we shall be damned. It doesn't say that if were not baptised of water then we go to hell. However, I would agree that if were not baptised with the Spirit of God then yes we will go to hell because the spirit would not have washed away our sin.

As I said before...there are two baptisms. The Water baptism and the Holy Spirit Baptism. However, it says in Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,......it is this ONE Baptism that saves us. The Baptism of the Spirit..the blood of Christ...

Take a look at these scriptures.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

In this scripture we see that Baptism does save, however, it is again the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Verse 20 mentions that eight souls were saved by water; however, the baptism referred to in verse 21 is said to be a LIKE FIGURE; but not actually water. The water represents the working of God's spirit, our baptism of the Holy Ghost.

[not4gotton]

Water baptism is for the remission of sins......a child who knows no sin does not need to be baptized....there is on sin to remit. As far as what you said about a person who repents then dies before they get baptized. God is the one who gave the instruction, He is also THE Judge ..He knows the heart of all people their past and future.....HE didn't tell us the answer to everything..He just told us to share the Gospel and thats what we are to do.
And in HIS GOSPEL ..St.John 3- 15 >Jesus answered, verily,verily,I say unto thee, Except a man be born OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God. WE should not debate about Gods word..but rightly divide the word of truth.

I do agree with you there are two types of baptism...but water baptism is part of the plan of salvation. If it were not for "the remission of sins" then why did Peter preach "Repent and BE baptized ( we CANNOT BAPTIZE OURSELVES WITH THE HOLY GHOST) EVERYONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ *FOR THE REMISSINON OF SINS,* and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. BAPTISM is for REMISSION... if Peter would have been talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit he wouldn't have went on to say "and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost"
St.John 20:22-23( Jesus Speaking to his disciples ( And when he had said this, he breathed on them,and saith unto him,receive ye the Holy Ghost: WHOSOEVER sins YE remit,they are remitted unto them;and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.
Jesus would not tell his disciples to "GO YE therefore,and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father,and the Son, and the Holy Ghost: If he were talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit..man CANNOT baptize anyone with the Holy Ghost.Only the Lord can do that.
Mark 16-15 and 16( Once again the Lord was talking to his disciples...remember man CANNOT baptize with the Holy Spirit ..only with water...We must do our part and be baptized *in water* and then the Lord will baptize us with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Once again
St.John 3-5(Jesus answered, verily,verily,I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF THE > WATER AND THE SPIRIT < HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
If water baptism were not for the remission of sins then why are we told that it is?
YES water baptism IS for the remission of sins..and it is a part of the plan of salvation! The Spirit decended upon Jesus AFTER he was baptized in WATER.

Again
Mark 16-16 > He that believeth and is baptized ( of Water and Spirit as stated in St.John 3-5) shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
You ARE RIGHT we must be baptized with the Holy Spirit !
BUT I'm also right we must be baptized in WATER for the remission of our sins!
Thank You very much for your comment !
It is always a pleasure to learn and study Gods word it sharpens our minds..
Iron sharpens Iron..lol
I admire your knowledge of Gods word !

[OneJoe]

Water baptism is for the remission of sins......a child who knows no sin does not need to be baptized....there is on sin to remit. As far as what you said about a person who repents then dies before they get baptized. God is the one who gave the instruction, He is also THE Judge ..He knows the heart of all people their past and future.....HE didn't tell us the answer to everything..He just told us to share the Gospel and thats what we are to do.
And in HIS GOSPEL ..St.John 3- 15 >Jesus answered, verily,verily,I say unto thee, Except a man be born OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God. WE should not debate about Gods word..but rightly divide the word of truth.

I do agree with you there are two types of baptism...but water baptism is part of the plan of salvation. If it were not for "the remission of sins" then why did Peter preach "Repent and BE baptized ( we CANNOT BAPTIZE OURSELVES WITH THE HOLY GHOST) EVERYONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ *FOR THE REMISSINON OF SINS,* and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. BAPTISM is for REMISSION... if Peter would have been talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit he wouldn't have went on to say "and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost"
St.John 20:22-23( Jesus Speaking to his disciples ( And when he had said this, he breathed on them,and saith unto him,receive ye the Holy Ghost: WHOSOEVER sins YE remit,they are remitted unto them;and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.
Jesus would not tell his disciples to "GO YE therefore,and teach all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father,and the Son, and the Holy Ghost: If he were talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit..man CANNOT baptize anyone with the Holy Ghost.Only the Lord can do that.
Mark 16-15 and 16( Once again the Lord was talking to his disciples...remember man CANNOT baptize with the Holy Spirit ..only with water...We must do our part and be baptized *in water* and then the Lord will baptize us with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Once again
St.John 3-5(Jesus answered, verily,verily,I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF THE > WATER AND THE SPIRIT < HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
If water baptism were not for the remission of sins then why are we told that it is?
YES water baptism IS for the remission of sins..and it is a part of the plan of salvation! The Spirit decended upon Jesus AFTER he was baptized in WATER.

Again
Mark 16-16 > He that believeth and is baptized ( of Water and Spirit as stated in St.John 3-5) shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
You ARE RIGHT we must be baptized with the Holy Spirit !
BUT I'm also right we must be baptized in WATER for the remission of our sins!
Thank You very much for your comment !
It is always a pleasure to learn and study Gods word it sharpens our minds..
Iron sharpens Iron..lol
I admire your knowledge of Gods word !
Not4Gotten, once again I disagree with you. A child whom you claim knows no sin does indeed need to be baptised to be saved. But again, I am not talking about water baptism. NO ONE can get into heaven without first being forgiven and having their sins washed away, but this is where we disagree. From what I'm readin in your posts, you seem to believe that water baptism can actually save you. Rather, a child must be baptised in the holy spirit to enter heaven. We must all be baptised in the the spirit by Jesus Christ to get into heaven. The bible is clear we are all born into sin, that includes children. There is none righteous, no not one. It is clear we are all in sin from birth and unless God saves us, we will perish, despite age.

Pro 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Now, I must also comment on your "not debating" statement. Debating is one way of how we discover truth. It is by discussing God's word that we find truth. Also, the bible does state to reprove others which will often result in a debate for truth. However, a debate doesn't have to be a bad thing if handled in a manner that is not in trangression of any of God's laws. How we handle a debate can be done in a Christian manner. We should not be rude, cruel, foolish, etc. Mar 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbor himself; and discover not a secret to another:
Pro 25:10 Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away.

Also, I disagree with your context of John3:15.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Here, in reference to water, Christ was speaking of the physical birth....we see this context in the very next verse.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you read this again, you will see Christ is speaking of being reborn, being saved, which as I said happens in the baptism of the spirit, by the blood of Christ. Now, I'm not saying that water Baptism was not performed during the church age and I'm also not saying it was unbiblical. I am merely pointing out that baptism of water is not required for salvation. Whether you or anyone else performs baptism in water is besides the point, but what is important is knowing that Baptism does not save us nor is it required for salvation. So as far as whether a person should have been baptised in water is of little importance when compared to teaching it is required for salvation. Teaching a person will go to hell for not being dipped in water is not biblical.

Don't take my word for it. Look at the scriptures again and you will see that in the scripture you posted, Christ was speaking of being born physically of the flesh. We must be born of water(flesh) and of the Holy Spirit to be saved. I recommend you read those scriptures again. Perhaps you overlooked that next verse or just missed the part about being born of the flesh. I have done that before and still miss those small details now and then, but it is by God's grace there is always someone to reprove me. I hope I haven't confused you any. I am merely pointing out details and trying to show that God can and does save some without water baptism..:-)

Onejoe

[not4gotton]

So what your saying is the scriptures that God gave us telling us that water baptism is for remission of sins are meaningless..and Gods word dosent really mean what it says..so we can just look over that part. I think not !
And you're saying that the Lord instructed the disciples to baptize believers in HIS NAME...
but it was all pointless..because He was really talking about being baptized with the Spirit ONLY..
*There is a reason and a purpose the Lord give those instructions *
just because we don't understand His ways dosent mean we should ignore them.
I believe Jesus said what He ment and ment what He said....when He said you must be born of the WATER and of the SPIRIT..thats exactly what He ment...If HE ment to say *you must be born of the (flesh) and the Spirit.then He would have said just that...when we study the scriptures we must rightly divide the word....Gods word interepts itself, and the reference to St.John 3-5
leads us to Mark 16 -16 also Acts 2-38.
As concerning St.John 3-6 there was a need for the Lord to explain to Nicodemus that *flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit*because Nicodemus thought he was talking about the flesh just as you seem to think. Also look at verse 7 >Jesus said Ye must be born AGAIN< So if we must be born AGAIN of the water and the spirit..(.and water according to you means being born of the flesh) the word AGAIN meaning twice so according to your view (as well as Nicodemus) we must be born again (or twice) of the flesh and the Spirit. NO WHAT THE LORD MEANS HERE IS JUST WHAT HE SAID...WATER AND SPIRIT ! NOT FLESH AND SPIRIT!
Obeying Gods word.....brings us to the point of salvation....
Water baptism...IS for the remission of sins ..Gods word says it and no one can change that fact.....to many people try to twist and turn Gods word into what they want it to say...we just need to accept it the way He ment it.

*Again Acts 22-16 ( And now why tarriest thou? arise, and BE BAPTIZED< and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS, calling on the name of the LORD.)
you can't ignore what it says ...and trying to turn it around to make it say something else won't change the fact of what it says.
* so the point of the matter is Im talking about* water baptism*
and you're talking about Spiritual baptism....BOTH ARE IMPORTANT but you can't seem to understand *water baptism*or you just won't accept it as GODS WORD. You seem to be avoiding it...???
* Again *Water Baptism is for REMISSION of SINS.....a child (who knows no sin) or has not COMMITED sin..does not need to be Baptized IN WATER. To have ones sins remitted there must first be commited sin to remit. WE are ALL born into a world of sin..but there is a certain age that a child begans to understand right from wrong. If a child dies before that age and has not commited sin there is no need for WATER BAPTISM...there is no sin to remit.

Words in the Hebrew lang. have double meaning..natural and spiritual,the first is always natural.....the first ADAM was flesh the second spirit (JESUS CHRIST) just thought i'd add that...
I am a witness as to the change repentance and Water baptism In JESUS NAME, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost can make in a persons life..
I am a new creature in Christ Jesus......His Word is Alive to me because I have experienced it.
This will probably be my last comment on this subject....in this thread...the things that you've said have helped me to have a better understanding....of why people see things the way they do..

[New_Wineskin]

I know we have to accept Christ as the son of God and our savior, but are we required to be baptised?? Please help me find scriptures about this. The whole reason for my question is because I have a 17 month old son. I am not sure how I feel about organized religion, but I don't want my son to have a strained relationship with God because if this, or him miss out on being baptised if that's what God requires of us.

Water Baptism ? Absolutely *not* !!

If one reads what Paul wrote concerning circumcism and fought against it for the Gentiles , the same argument holds for water baptism .

[OneJoe]

Did I say water baptism was meaningless or did you read that into it because I don't recall making that statement. This topic was about whether water Baptism was required for salvation, not whether we should just get it done according to scripture. What I have attempted to point out is that salvation is not obtained by anything we do, including Baptism, but rather by the grace of God. Salvation is not of works, and our being water baptised in water is a work. Your asking me if I'm saying the scriptures about water baptism are pointless when I have already clearly said that water baptism is valid and completely biblical; however, it is not required to be saved, that God can in fact save some without anything we do.

Quote: "I believe Jesus said what He ment and ment what He said....when He said you must be born of the WATER and of the SPIRIT..thats exactly what He ment...If HE ment to say *you must be born of the (flesh) and the Spirit.then He would have said just that."

Are you not reading the next verse or even the verse before 3:5? The verse before and after both speak of being born of the flesh. You speak of studying the word and rightly dividing the word so lets do it. You said the bible interprets itself and that I agree with. However, your taking Joh 3:5 by itself and not considering the following verses which expand on the context of 3:5.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Here the verse is speaking of a fleshly birth.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Here, the word water is in question; however, this can be solved simply by reading the verses before and after to get the context of 3:5.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Here, it is very obvious the word is speaking of the flesh.

You said you believe he meant just as he said? Lets divide the word here just as you have said. Both the verse before and the verse after speak of being born of the flesh. Are you still missing this? Also, your explanation of what Nicodemus thought and what you believe I think also is incorrect. Christ said we must be born again. None of these scriptures imply that we must be born a second time of the flesh, but rather you will notice Nicodemus asked Jesus how a man could enter again into his mothers womb. Christ’s response was that we must be born again. We are born once of the flesh; however, our second birth is of the spirit when God saves us. So when Christ said we must be born again, he was not implying two physical births, but rather that our second birth will be when we obtain salvation.

Now, lets move on to Mar 16:16.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I can begin by asking where does this verse or the whole chapter lead you to believe it means water? There is an automatic contradiction with what your stating compared to this verse. First, this verse says to believe and be baptized and you shall be saved. You are blindly taking this verse as it is without considering what else the bible says. If in fact this verse meant water baptism as you imply then that would mean that water baptism could somehow save us from our sin which we know is absolutly incorrect. Only the baptism of the Holy Spirit can wash away our sins, by of course God's grace.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I like to compare this verse to Mar 16:16. Eph 2:8 says "through faith" which certainly agrees with Mark 16:16 since in mark were told to "believe". This verse also says "not of yourselves: it is a gift of God." It is not of ourselves or anything we do that gets us saved, but rather a gift of God when HE baptizes us in the Holy Spirit.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. < Baptism of the Spirit..:-)

Now, you also posted Acts 2:38 which is a great verse.
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, each of you on the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Once again, this scripture does not at all say that baptism of water saves us. I agree this scripture is referring to water baptism; however, it isn’t the water that does the saving here; it is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not4gotten, I will repeat this one last time before I move onto something else you said that I believe needs to be addressed. I am NOT saying that water baptism is not biblical; however, I AM saying God can save people without them being baptized and you have yet to prove me wrong. Salvation is by God's Grace only.

Now, lets move on to something else you said. Since you have mentioned many many times about "God's word", accepting God's word, rightly dividing God's word, discerning truth, etc. etc. you made a statement that the bible does not support and I know you will not find scriptures in their true context to support it. You said.....

Quote:"a child (who knows no sin) or has not COMMITED sin..does not need to be Baptized IN WATER. To have ones sins remitted there must first be commited sin to remit. WE are ALL born into a world of sin..but there is a certain age that a child begans to understand right from wrong. If a child dies before that age and has not commited sin there is no need for WATER BAPTISM...there is no sin to remit. "

A child who knows no sin? I guess you completely disregaurded the scripture of being born in sin, that were all "dead" in sin.

or has not COMMITED sin? once again..scripture says that by ONE MAN'S SIN, sin passed upon all men.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon ALL men, for that ALL have sinned:

"but there is a certain age that a child begans to understand right from wrong"........WHERE does the bible say this????????? That is an unbiblical statement.

The truth is that not all children are saved because their children and under a certain age. Some can be saved yes, if God wills it, but that doesn't mean everyone.
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)


Onejoe

[charlesj]

I know we have to accept Christ as the son of God and our savior, but are we required to be baptised?? Please help me find scriptures about this. The whole reason for my question is because I have a 17 month old son. I am not sure how I feel about organized religion, but I don't want my son to have a strained relationship with God because if this, or him miss out on being baptised if that's what God requires of us.

I posted a short article titled "Fellowship with God".... please read it. I deal with baptism. Baptism is a part of the gospel plan of salvation just as repentance and confession of Christ is.

[not4gotton]

Anyone who studies Gods word knows that Water Baptism was not in the Law. John the Baptist was the one who baptized with water.
Water baptism is for the" Remission of sins"
They must be remitted...then the Blood will be applied...

[New_Wineskin]

Anyone who studies Gods word knows that Water Baptism was not in the Law. John the Baptist was the one who baptized with water.
Water baptism is for the" Remission of sins"
They must be remitted...then the Blood will be applied...

Baptism is a part of the Law if one says that it must be done because the Scriptures say so .

Anyone who knows history knows that water baptism was a Jewish ritual that John was continuing . The Jews accepted that water baptism was a symbol of already having been forgiven because of repentance . It was not a requirement - it was a public display that choose to do to show they had already repented and already received forgiveness . They knew that forgiveness cannot be obtained through their own efforts such as water baptism .

[not4gotton]

No your wrong....maybe one day you will see it ....Baptism is not 'Our efforts"
it is Gods order.....

[New_Wineskin]

No your wrong....maybe one day you will see it ....Baptism is not 'Our efforts"
it is Gods order.....

That is the same argument that the Jewish believers would have given Paul concerning circumcism of the Gentiles . If water baptism is "God's" order , circumcism was in His order before that . Paul would look at the water baptism debate and say that they can go all the way and drown themselves . People have taken a Jewish display and made it into a requirement to obtain righteousness .

[charlesj]

I know we have to accept Christ as the son of God and our savior, but are we required to be baptised?? Please help me find scriptures about this. The whole reason for my question is because I have a 17 month old son. I am not sure how I feel about organized religion, but I don't want my son to have a strained relationship with God because if this, or him miss out on being baptised if that's what God requires of us.

Read my two posts on baptism, "Baptism and the Grace of our Lord" and "What's all this talk about baptism?" I have some more to write on it, but will wait a day or so... may the Lord be with you as you study.
Man has made this ALL hard, it's very simple.
your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
charlesj