John 14:28

[Mikem]

I've been trying to figure out the relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and I came across this Scripture:

John 14:28 X**X¶Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Now many Christians Currently quote that Jesus and the Father are one:

John 14: 11 X**XBelieve me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

and therefore equal, but in this passage, Christ clearly states the Father is greater than He.

What say You?

[SpiritLedEd]

I've been trying to figure out the relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and I came across this Scripture:

John 14:28 X**X¶Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Now many Christians Currently quote that Jesus and the Father are one:

John 14: 11 X**XBelieve me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

and therefore equal, but in this passage, Christ clearly states the Father is greater than He.

What say You?


Jesus came to earth as both God and man, which is why He often refers to Himself as the "Son Of Man". In the verse you cite, Jesus is speaking as man under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Paul answers your question nicely in his letter to the Philippians: "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus, who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God (His role as the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity) as something to be grasped (hung onto), but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." (Phil 2:5-7)

SLE

[zarxs]

Jesus Christ came to earth as the Son of God but had foresaken his Godly power. He retained his majestical authority but gave up his Godly power. While here on earth the Miricles he did were probably based on the Power of faith mentioned in Matthew 17:20 and elsewhere. Jesus would have had absolute faith and therefore could do the things that he told us we could do if we had faith as well (faith as small as a mustard seed). So Jesus the son of God came to earth as Man retaining only his Godly authority and absolute faith. The Holy spirit was in him strongly this was the reason for the passage of God was in him and he was in God. This also explains why he said God was greater than he (since he did not retain his Godly power).

There are many verses supporting Jesus forsaking his Godly power but they always get overshadowed by people seeing Jesus doing Miricles. This apparent conflict leaves people thinking they have to make a choice. Matthew 17:20 provides a possible explaination for the apparant conflict so no conflict actually exists.

[blueheron32]

hey zarxs...

When Jesus came to earth he took upon himself a human nature, that he would have a body that he once and for all would be the one sacrifice acceptable to God to be the propitiation for our sins.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

But even though he recieved a body, and was called the son of man..he never relinquished the attributes of God.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Notice...Jesus was speaking on earth to his disciples, and told them he was in heaven...omnipresence.

2Ch 6:30 Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men:)
Joh 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man

By comparing those two verses above you can see that only God knows what is in man, in his heart, and Jesus while he was here on earth as a man, knew what was in the heart of man...he often knew what they were thinking...omniscience

As you said, Jesus performed mighty works of power...the mighty storms on the sea obeyed him...the dead were raised to life... he created wine from water... his miraculous works were the works of the mighty God. all power was at his disposal, because he never ceased to be God.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Jesus was all powerful...omnipotent

Jesus was fully God, and fully man....because man had sinned, God required a man to pay the price for sin....because the price demanded by the justice of God was an infinite one, only God himself was capable of satisfying such a debt. So it required that Jesus be fully man and fully God to accomplish the purpose for which he was sent...Not only did Jesus the man die on the cross, but God himself came under the wrath of God and suffered the equivelant of eternity in hell for all he came to save. It was Jesus, fully God and fully man who came out of the grave....and it is Jesus, fully God and fully man who is seated at the right hand of God.

This may not be something our little minds can grasp at this point, but it can still be believed. What a saviour we have.

blueheron32

[tammy78]

Can you all clarify something for me?
Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
It seems like Jesus is clearly speaking to God. I'm having a lot of trouble grasping the fact that Jesus was God in human form. I have read many scriptures where it seems quite straightforward that Jesus is refering to himself as being lower than his Father. If anyone can help clarify this for me I would be grateful.

[germanJoy]

Can you all clarify something for me?
Matt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
It seems like Jesus is clearly speaking to God. I'm having a lot of trouble grasping the fact that Jesus was God in human form. I have read many scriptures where it seems quite straightforward that Jesus is refering to himself as being lower than his Father. If anyone can help clarify this for me I would be grateful.
Hi Tammy, You will only be able to grasp the fact that Jesus was God in human form and was Man with Godly attributes (being Son of God and Son of Man) by the work of the Holy Spirit who will be the One to teach you and help you understand and receive the revelation of Jesus Christ just as He did to Peter when asked who Jesus is. What the brethren at CCF can only do is to lay down the spiritual truth but the FINAL JOB is GOD'S AND YOUR CHOICE to believe it or not. Our dear friend Blue :-) had already given the best and most clear EXPLANATION I have ever encountered in this site to answer your queries, some of which I quote (with minor additions/alterations):

When Jesus came to earth He took upon himself a human nature, that He would have a body to be sacrificed once and for all (as the Lamb of God) acceptable to God to be the propitiation for our sins.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

But even though He recieved a body, and was called the Son of man..he never relinquished the attributes of God.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Notice...Jesus was speaking on earth to his disciples, and told them he was in heaven...omnipresence.

2Ch 6:30 Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men
Joh 2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man

By comparing those two verses above you can see that only God knows what is in man, in his heart, and Jesus while he was here on earth as a man, knew what was in the heart of man...He "always" knew what they were thinking...omniscience

As you said, Jesus performed mighty works of power...the mighty storms on the sea obeyed Him...the dead were raised to life... He created wine from water... His miraculous works were the works of the mighty God. all power was at His disposal, because HE NEVER CEASED TO BE GOD.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Jesus was all powerful...omnipotent

Jesus was FULLY GOD, AND FULLY MAN....because man had sinned, God required a man to pay the price for sin....because the price demanded by the justice of God was an infinite one, only God himself was capable of satisfying such a debt. So it required that Jesus be fully man and fully God to accomplish the purpose for which He was sent...Not only did Jesus the man die on the cross, but God himself came under the wrath of God and suffered the equivelant of eternity in hell for all He came to save. It was Jesus, fully God and fully man who came out of the grave....and it is Jesus, fully God and fully man who is seated at the right hand of God.

This may not be something our little minds can grasp at this point, but it can still be believed. What a saviour we have.

blueheron32 Unquote.

Wow! what a REVELATION!!!

AMEN! BLUE!

[germanJoy]

You see, Tammy, since Jesus being Son of God took fully the human form, He at times communicated as a human being to God and lifted the Father up. Thus, He said the Father is greater than I. However, the Father also lifted Jesus up. Both are lifting up one another, the Son lifts up the Father and the Father lifts up the Son.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent n the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life." John 3:14-15

And while Jesus was on the cross CARRYING ALL OUR SINS, God the Father being HOLY had to leave Jesus (for the very first time since eternity) because JESUS BECAME SIN as He was carrying our sins IN HIM, IN HIS BODY. God is Holy and in Him there is no sin. Therefore the Father had to leave the Son at the cross of calvary JUST BECAUSE OF SINNERS like you and me.

He (the Father) made Him (the Son) who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Cor. 5:21

I hope this helps answer your questions.

[blueheron32]

Tammy..

Those words spoken by Jesus on the cross were taken from Psalm 22. If you go to that psalm and read it you will find many other things there that relate to his suffering on the cross...I would encourage you to do that...

I believe there are many things about the nature of God, that we are just not able to comprehend. I also believe those questions will be answered when we see him face to face, for then we will see him as he is..We will know him, in a way we cannot now because we will be changed,

Jesus was crying out to God in his torment, not only was he enduring the physical torment of the cross, but also the spiritual torment of the wrath of God, his father being poured out upon him. How is it that God could forsake God, or that God could turn his back on his only begotten Son, in whom he was well pleased?

One thing we must remember is that even though Jesus was sinless in himself..all the sins of those he came to save had been laid upon him. He was our sin bearer. We were the cursed ones, but He became a curse for us. We were the ones that deserved to suffer eternity in hell, under the wrath of God, but Jesus took our place. Even as his righteousness is imputed to us...our sin was imputed to him, and it was in that setting that God turned his back on his Son, and Poured out upon him all the fury of his wrath.

Jesus was chosen by God to pay a price for a people, and the magnitude of that price will always be a private matter between the Father and his Son. Suffice it to say that the Son freely submitted to his Father as the Father was fully appeased in his anger. When he was finished punishing his Son for the sins laid upon him...there was no wrath left in the Father...it was finished...and Jesus gave up the Ghost.

We get a small glimpse of this as we see Abraham walking with his son Isaac to the mountains of Moriah. Together they build an altar, they lay the wood on the altar, and then Abraham binds his son and lays him on that altar, and takes the knife to slay his son and burn him to ash. The difference is that God stopped Abraham, and substituted a Ram. to take isaacs place. When the time came for God to place his own son on that altar....The hand of God was not stayed. God went all the way. The altar was built, the fire was kindled and the price was paid...

In all of that..Jesus cried out....My God my God..why hast thou forsaken me....Abba Father....why.....

blueheron32...