Should church/state be separate?

[OneJoe]

I realize this is an on going debate and I'm sure it will continue to be, but I am curious as to where many of our chatters stand on this issue. Should religion play a role in our governments decision making or should the two be completely separate? Obviously there are those who agree in the separation while a minority believe church and state should unite or the government be as an affiliate of the church. I am curious what your thoughts are on this topic or if you have a position which holds to another possiblity...:-)

God Bless!

[Bouncinstar]

My concern in joining them together.. would be.. who would control who? With solidarity lacking amongst Christians today.. even if they were in control of church and state.. another battle would begin of it's own.. on which doctrine to follow. Great Poll!

[Rufus]

I realize this is an on going debate and I'm sure it will continue to be, but I am curious as to where many of our chatters stand on this issue. Should religion play a role in our governments decision making or should the two be completely separate? Obviously there are those who agree in the separation while a minority believe church and state should unite or the government be as an affiliate of the church. I am curious what your thoughts are on this topic or if you have a position which holds to another possiblity...:-)

God Bless!

This question is rife with complexity. I would desire that the federal government separate from everything they are involved in save for the things that are Constitutionally mandated. Basically, they should provide for the common defense, & coin money amongst other things, neither of which they are doing. Rather, than doing that which is constitutionally permissable, they are over-stepping the bounds of constitutional limitations as well as Biblical ones. For example, neither the constitution nor the Bible allow for the government to be involved in the training of children. Thus, rather than have generations of children grow up as Christians they become educated in the religion of secular humanism. The government has no business telling pastors what they can or can not say from the pulpit via the threat of taking away a church's tax exemption. This changes the headship of the church from being Jesus Christ to Julius Caeser (pastor's sign-up for 501c3 status on their own so it's really just as much their fault). If you get gov't out of education and allow parents the choice of where they desire their children to go to school then much of the church/state whining goes away as this is the primary battle ground.

[godslove]

i believe that the goverment should be accountable to basic Christian beliefs. the Bible should be consulted in all matters. and before anyone becomes a leader in the goverment, they should first have to be proven that they are of good Christian character. well learned in the Scriptures, knees worn out from prayer. but i only see this happening when our Lord returns. God bless.

[DanV aka FreetoloveGod]

First men's hearts must be changed. Everything starts and ends with the heart. We believe with the "heart." The heart being the real inner spirit of man.

What does the Bible say about the heart of man?

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." - Genesis 6:5-6

What did you get out of that passage? "He was grieved in His heart." God is grieved today at the separation of people called church and state.

"And Hannah prayed and said: "My heart rejoices in the LORD;" - 1 Samuel 2:1.

Rejoice in the LORD and you, like Hannah, can say "I smile at my enemies."

"So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God gave him another heart; and all those signs came to pass that day." - 1 Samuel 10:9.

Interesting passage, 1 Samuel 10:1-16. Read it all.

"But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the LORD does not see as man sees, but the LORD looks at the heart." - 1 Samuel 16:7

How many times have you heard this passage quoted? Now you know where it is.

"For it was so, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the LORD his God, as was the heart of his father David." - 1 Kings 11:4

Wow! Did you see how easily a heart can turn away from the LORD? The heart mentioned three times. The world needs a heart transplant in order for the state and God [church] to work together. Anything short of that is futile.

"A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will not know wickeness." - Psalm 101:4.

Get rid of that wicked heart. The entire Psalm is worth reading, as it refers to the heart again and again.

"Praise the LORD! I will praise the LORD with my whole heart." - Psalm 111:1.

No half-heartedness here. A clean and faithful heart is required for state/Church [God] to exists together.

"For as he thinks in his heart, so is he....." - Proverb 23:7.

There, again, thinking with the heart is wise. There is much wisdom in this 23rd Proverb as in the 23rd Psalm.

"As in water face reflects face. So a man's heart reveals the man." - Proverb 27:19.

Read it again, then look and listen to those two speakers at this past U.N. meeting and you will really understand what they are saying. State/Church unity can only be accomplished with a heart of love.

"He who is of a proud heart stirs up strife, But he who trusts in the LORD will be prospered. He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, but whoever walks wisely will be delivered." - Proverb 28:25-26.

Every leader must meet the saying of this Proverb, othewise, church/state will never work. Read the entire Proverb 28 and you will be wiser and more compassionate towards everyone.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings." - Jeremiah 17:9-10.

You don't have to wonder anymore, if you did, why without a change in heart there can be no uniting of church/state.

'Then I will give tham a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart." - Jeremiah 24:7.

How does church and state unite? With a heart change towards God.

"Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh." - Ezekiel 11:19.

Thats it! Replace all the 'stony' hearts with "a heart of flesh" and then church and state can be one.

We have read how God tells us its a Heart problem. Now let's see what Jesus says.

"Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God." - Matthew 5:8.

Can we see how important a "pure heart" is? Imagine how church and state could operate with a "pure heart" and then the climax of this "pure heart" will be to "see God."

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Matthew 6:21.

What a "treasure" it would be to have such a concerned and compassionate heart with church and state in total agreement.

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." - Matthew 15:19.

What is Jesus saying here? Church, State, defilement comes from within. Get your heart right and eliminate all those terrible things mentioned.

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living waters." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." - John 7:38-39.

We know that Jesus has been "glorified," therefore, here is an excellent time to pray that the state and church "believe" and therefore "receive" the Holy Spirit baptism. Then watch them come together!

"All things are possible to those who believe."

God Bless.

[godslove]

yes brother dan, the heart must be right. but that in no way makes them leaders. there are many Christians whose heart is right but i would not elect them as my president. what we need are mature Christians that have proven themselves with thier close walk with God and thier leadership abilities. those who have learned to seek and follow the will of God....God bless

[DanV aka FreetoloveGod]

yes brother dan, the heart must be right. but that in no way makes them leaders. there are many Christians whose heart is right but i would not elect them as my president. what we need are mature Christians that have proven themselves with thier close walk with God and thier leadership abilities. those who have learned to seek and follow the will of God....God bless

I totally agree with you godslove. Along with your description above, we also need leaders with the heart and courage of King David both as a conquerer of Goliath, a leader of men, and a man after God's heart.

God Bless.

[germanJoy]

I am for the unity of the church and the "christian" state. I emphasize the word "christian" considering the fact that an unbelieving nation can never be united with God or the church. My own conviction is based on God's covenant with Abraham:

As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you. And you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. Genesis 17:4

If the believing nations separate themselves from the church, their morals or values will be jeopardized resulting to compomises, wickedness and destruction. But if they remain united with the "true" church, the nation will be enlisted as one of the "multitudes" in Genesis and Revelation.

Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou alone art holy; For all the nations will come and worship before Thee. Revelations 15:4

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes.... Rev. 7:9

A separated church and state is to me unqualified to fulfill the requirements of being part of a multitude of nations.

[Deege]

An interesting question, and I've been throwing around the idea in my head for a while.
Basically, I think that they should be united. If God is so wise and knowledgeable, then it just makes sense for him to be the ruler of the country. How to accomplish this however is a different matter.

[Recycled]

My take on this question is simple. I believe it was the purpose of our Founding Fathers to establish the need for the principles of Christianity (the church) to rule all hearts, including the government leaders, but the government leaders (the state) are not to rule the church.

God's law, the Bible, is the supreme law with all others subordinate to it, including any governing body, whether they like it and recognize it, or not.

R~

[hearthammer]

Christ said, "My Kingdom is not of this world, if it were My people would fight."
There is absolutely no way for man to legislate God in the secular world. God desires us to desire Him. We cannot expect the "world" to abide by God's commands if they are opposed to Him. And they are opposed to Him. We are not to establish His Lordship over the Kingdoms of this world. Only He can do that until then we are to live as if He has already done so.
The True Church is to be seperate. So yes I believe there should be.

As a side note the Roman Catholic church tried to impose God's laws and enforce them on the people. We know what happened there. Now we have the secular world trying to legislate without God and just Look around...
Excellent question
Take Care and God Bless

[hearthammer]

I would like to add one thing here. Many are aware of President Bushs' Faith Based Initiative. This is somewhat of a trap that is being set up. Churches get Federal Dollars for programs that serve the community. Well it seems that Bush passed an executive order, someone help me out with the number please. It calls all Faith Based churches involved in his program to be incorporated into Homeland Security. In the event of another Katrina or 9/11 type National disaster, they are to organize and maintain order in their congregations. Yes, it is true, American churches are on the "Take".
Seperate them before it is too late.
"Come out of her My people...."
Take Care and God Bless

[Paisleyisme]

Ya know what happened last time the Christian church was affiliated with the state... crusades, inquisitions, murder and mayhem, etc... etc... I would bet that if the Vatican could do some of those things again they would. Do you know that the laws of the church on killing heritics was never taken off of the books? It's true. It was only suspended.

Now I am Christian but joining the church and state doesn't work and should not happen ever again. I believe it will happen again but it wont work the way we think it should (because man will make the rules and not God). Notice how it doesn't work with the Muslim religion, or any other for that matter, either.

I do believe that people should be free to worship as they feel as long as it doesn't harm anyone. I am not talking about the aetheist saying, "Oh, the 10 commandments should come off the walls of court houses because it makes me feel bad." As if that really hurts them. If they don't like the way this nation was founded then they can go away to some other country (I bet many of us would be more than happy to pay their way out too!!! :LOL ).

And hey, I am willing to bend a little and put a plaque up with nothing on it for those people who don't believe in anything. :-p A town I lived near a few years ago in Tennessee did that.

Seriously, this nation was founded, and so was it's laws, on the basis of Christian morals and understanding. I believe that the USA was and should be a Christian nation. However, we should never have a government who can pass laws that bind men to go against thier conscience when it comes to God. If we do we will see many things being enforced that none of us really want. Why? Because what will be the religious background of the leader making the desions? A Baptist? A Catholic? A Pentecostal? An Evangelical? A Mormon? Someone has to lose out on whatthey believe because there are some differences in all Christian faiths.

Where am I wrong?

Peace and Grace

[germanJoy]

Ya know what happened last time the Christian church was affiliated with the state... crusades, inquisitions, murder and mayhem, etc... etc... I would bet that if the Vatican could do some of those things again they would. Do you know that the laws of the church on killing heritics was never taken off of the books? It's true. It was only suspended.
For this reason, the word "true church or believers" is emphasized. The Inquisitors were never considered as genuine representatives of Christianity. Since when did the Apostles preached with a sword? Was Jesus Christ Himself not against it when Peter drew a sword and cut-off the soldier's ear?

Now I am Christian but joining the church and state doesn't work and should not happen ever again. I believe it will happen again but it wont work the way we think it should (because man will make the rules and not God). Notice how it doesn't work with the Muslim religion, or any other for that matter, either.
It will obviously not work if it happens exactly how you think it should. But if you take the nation "Israel" being led by mighty men of God like David, Solomon, Moses, Joshua, etc. as an example, it is bound to work. If you limit God's capability of trusting His own men to lead nations, faith cannot prevail.

I do believe that people should be free to worship as they feel as long as it doesn't harm anyone. I am not talking about the aetheist saying, "Oh, the 10 commandments should come off the walls of court houses because it makes me feel bad." As if that really hurts them. If they don't like the way this nation was founded then they can go away to some other country (I bet many of us would be more than happy to pay their way out too!!! :LOL ).

That's right, I rather be ruled by a "fanatic" christian than an atheist or any unbeliever like a Moslem. That would be scary! . :-)

Seriously, this nation was founded, and so was it's laws, on the basis of Christian morals and understanding. I believe that the USA was and should be a Christian nation. However, we should never have a government who can pass laws that bind men to go against thier conscience when it comes to God. If we do we will see many things being enforced that none of us really want. Why? Because what will be the religious background of the leader making the desions? A Baptist? A Catholic? A Pentecostal? An Evangelical? A Mormon? Someone has to lose out on whatthey believe because there are some differences in all Christian faiths.

A true christian leader is one who does not interpret the Bible but one whose heart is to study God's Word, practice it, teach and implement it to his people like Ezra to Israel. And all "religions" should be trashed. :-)

Where am I wrong?

You were wrong in including the Mormons and Catholics in the list. :LOL

Peace and Grace too!

[Paisleyisme]

germanJoy,

Mormons and Catholics do claim to be Christian and I do believe that God has some of His people in both at this time. There may even be some in your church. There might even be a couple in mine. :af I believe that God's people are all over and among many denominations at this time. I believe some of God's people are even in false religions. Some just don't realize they are within the house of Apostacy.

My point is this, unless lines are drawn to cut certain people out that are claiming to be Christian then they would still be able to rule the country under the flag of Chrisianity. But if lines are drawn then discrimination and persecution will begin. You can count on it!

There will not be a "good" joining of church and state until Jesus comes back or everyone agrees in the same doctrines of faith. And if Jesus doesn't come back and set it up Himself then there will again be murder in His name to get rid of those who will Protest against false doctrines that will doubtlessly appear. Because for the most part, those that gain power follow the ways of the word not God.

Peace and Grace

[Rufus]

Mormons and Catholics do claim to be Christian and I do believe that God has some of His people in both at this time. There may even be some in your church. There might even be a couple in mine. :af I believe that God's people are all over and among many denominations at this time. I believe some of God's people are even in false religions. Some just don't realize they are within the house of Apostacy.

Religious beliefs are defined by doctrine. A Mormon is one who believes in the doctrines of Mormonism a Roman Catholic believes in the doctrines of Roman Catholicism. If one holds to the doctrines of Biblical Christianity and goes to a Catholic church or Mormon ward, then they can be Christian but they are not Mormon nor Catholic. If they hold to Christianity, then they cringe at the false teachings and they leave those false faiths.

The following are all oxymoronic:


Mormon Christians
Catholic Christians
Muslim Christians
Judeo Christians
Buddhist Christians
Taoist Christians
Jehovah Witness Christians
Wiccan Christians
Satanic Christians
Skull and Bones Christians
Freemason Christians
Rosicrucian Christians

[germanJoy]

germanJoy,

Mormons and Catholics do claim to be Christian and I do believe that God has some of His people in both at this time. There may even be some in your church. There might even be a couple in mine. :af I believe that God's people are all over and among many denominations at this time. I believe some of God's people are even in false religions. Some just don't realize they are within the house of Apostacy.
See Rufus' very informative and truthful response enlisting all false christian religions. (Many thanks, Rufus, for it :) ) For "false brethren" to be in the "true church" is probable but for "true christians" to be in the "false religion" is and should be unimaginable. If I sincerely seek the truth of God's Word, I can never be in the company of liars and unbelievers. If I do "knowledgeably", then I am counted as one of them. Remember, do not yoke yourself equally with unbelievers? But if I am "innocent", God will be the One to pull me OUT of there.

My point is this, unless lines are drawn to cut certain people out that are claiming to be Christian then they would still be able to rule the country under the flag of Chrisianity. But if lines are drawn then discrimination and persecution will begin. You can count on it!

That is why I said "religions should be trashed" which means denomination/s cannot and should not rule a country but a group of God-fearing and Christ-like men. A godly nation of course becomes only a reality if the folks themselves are God-fearing and Christ-like. After all, it is the people that makes a nation. If the people "separate" their beliefs (God/church) from choosing their leaders (nation), they will suffer the consequences of their wrong choice. If they "unite" their beliefs in God with their national interest, godly leaders will rise up and the nation will be blessed. Enemies of God i.e., the unbelieving nations, will of course, rise up against them just as prophesied. :-)

There will not be a "good" joining of church and state until Jesus comes back or everyone agrees in the same doctrines of faith. And if Jesus doesn't come back and set it up Himself then there will again be murder in His name to get rid of those who will Protest against false doctrines that will doubtlessly appear. Because for the most part, those that gain power follow the ways of the word not God.

Once we witness as a nation, by the light of Christ and with the Word of God, without weapons, sword or the like, our "enemies" will overpower us by execution, persecution, etc. with their "sword". The "inquisitors" did exactly the opposite to the "unbelievers" and thus Christ was not glorifed. If we do our "jobs" properly as a body of Christ and as a people/nation of God, the coming of our Messiah will be imminent! :)

Separation "NO", Unity "YES"! Hear yea, our Lord Jesus Christ saith: Yes, I am coming quickly! Rev. 22:20

Peace and Grace

[purplejbaker]

My faith stands firmly in the Biblical Christian beliefs. However, my patrioism stands in the belief that all who live in this country (and the world for that fact) should have nothing but the utmost right to practice whatever religion and belief they may have. The problem I have with a binding of church and state is that the state now shows an extreme favoritism to one particular church. Funds are chaneled, propaganda is displayed, and specific jobs are formed for this new-found binding. This goes against the firm beliefs that our country was founded upon. Just a thought.

[Crikey Cheetah]

Our laws are based on common sense. Even if it is based on the Ten Commandments, it is fair.

[MissBrat]

I think it should be one, but we live in a world that is not perfect. Even if it is not together church and state; God is still in control no matter what. And hopefully the government will not try to rule over God by making people do what they think is right. I will always follow God even if and when my government does not.

[Crikey Cheetah]

The government should be accountable to stuff like the Ten Commandments, but nothing more. The Bible is Christian, and it's a good book to follow for us, but that doesn't mean everyone else should follow us, nor are they going to. Civil Law should be based on the Ten Commandments.

[Steve777]

I believe the separation of church and state is only part of the doctrine of this nation founded on the principles of freedom. If our nation was built on religion, non-religious folk would label us as Communist.
While I do not have the same beliefs as Atheists, Wiccans, or other Non-Christian religions, I still believe we are all of equal importance and should respect each other and all have the right to be protected by law.

However, this nation and world would obviously be better off if we all lived under Christian doctrine. Think of how many abortions would have been prevented.

[LovedBubba]

Amen

[Jon Henry51]

I couldn't agree more with you godslove. We need now more than ever to be able to rely on our Heavenly Father for guidance in government and all the people God has placed in authority over us.

Until most, if not all, of our politicians learn to live inside God's will and draw their strengths from Him instead of trying to live within their own abilities, we will never know peace in this country.

Unfortunately, I also believe this will only happen when Christ returns to reign here on earth.

[Bridgit]

God created this world and we are called to live for Him. Nothing should be separated from Him. Jesus should be the foundation for our government and for everything else in our life.

[bej]

May I quote Benjamin Franklin? " When religion is good it will take care of itself; when it is not able to take care of itself, and God does not see fit to take care of it, so that it has to appeal to the civil power for support, it is evidence to my mind it's cause is a bad one"

[andychaos]

well yeah but I dunno I think comparing an ancient for of an absolute monarchy to a modern day democracy is well not possible. All I know is that Jesus did not get along to well with the government officials of his time and neither did his church after he was resurected. I think the church has more important things to worry about than being untited with the state. Lets just love each other and see where it gets us!

[KJVersion]

I hvent read the thread but YES! You got to keep 'em SEPERATED!
I realize there are so very few countries with no "official" church. Thank God America has freedom of religion, because with an official church, we may not even have this board to post on and chat and share our unique visions.
PLEASE, use your freedom, don't abuse or neglect it1

[christunione]

Here it is, that this is so simple. The suggestion that there should be separation of Church and State must be taken in context of time and place it was stated, and why. It boils down to this. The reason they said it was to prevent the government from dictating our religion, as was done during the inquisition; not as is currently happening, that one not practice, or have a religion, or interject it into society or government functioning.

It really is impossible to separate church and state if you have religious people in government.

[KJZ28]

The founding fathers felt that this government should be intertwined with the Christian faith, but ruling each other should never occur. Read history and you will find this out. James Madison who wrote the amendment pertaining to Church and state held three days of national prayer to God. So that gives you the mindset of that amendment.

[Faith]

i believe that the goverment should be accountable to basic Christian beliefs. the Bible should be consulted in all matters. and before anyone becomes a leader in the goverment, they should first have to be proven that they are of good Christian character. well learned in the Scriptures, knees worn out from prayer. but i only see this happening when our Lord returns. God bless.

I agree

[live4him]

Our goverment was founded by christians and is based upon Christian ethics and I beilieve it can only operate properly when we use the ethics on which it is structered.

[inHisshadow]

We live in a moraly bankrupt nation who's children are not being taught what they should about God, Jesus, and His way of life. It starts with small things like no prayer in shcool. Blessed is the Nation who's God is the Lord. I look around me and wonder how long we will be blessed.

[britannic man]

Here in the U.K. Church and State are linked, and the debate is the other way round.

The Queen is Sovereign and both Head of the Church of England (and also Scotland, though it is different there). "Head of the C of E" means she is the lead worshipper, not authoritative as is the Pope in the RC church.

However, until now it has been the job of the PM to appoint bishops (Gordon Brown wants to change that and leave it to the church).

The plus side:
*the Archbishops and leading bishops have a right to speak into public life and are listened to (I believe, in the ranking of most important people in the country, the Archbishop of Canterbury comes before Prime Minister)
*The leading bishops are members of the House of Lords (the Upper House in parliament)
*The Queen speaks of Christian faith and models it in a powerful way, always making it central to important national events
*A daily act of worship is a compulsory part of school day
*the parish system means everyone lives in a parish which has a vicar/priest and in many communities this gives him kudos and respect and a way to reach people
*though it has been forgotten in last 50 years, our constitution is based around the Coronation Service, in which the Monarch pledges (essentially on behalf of the Government) to uphold the Protestant faith and to honour the teachings of Scripture. [God will be holding quite a few Governments of the past decades accountable on that I have no doubt]

The down side:
*The public view of Christianity is often stodgy and 'state/establishment'
*School worship is often left to those with no faith to lead, and this turns students off
*the church gets seen as Establishment and tarred with the same brush if it works too closely with politicians who become tainted

On balance I am in favour of it, though many aren't.

Very different to Stateside, and not sure how it would work there. OUr systems have evolved on very different paths!

[NewMan96]

The separation of church and state clause was meant to protect the church, not the state. The state was not to institute or deny a religion. It was always accepted that people of God would participate and influence government. The corruption of the intent of that clause that we have now is absurd.:m

[corrie]

In my country, church and state are pretty separate - but despite that, since 1994 there has been much done to inconspicuously steer away from Christianity.
Following the footsteps of bigger nations, we now may no longer pray at school as a group, and all the fairness to all religions and human rights and equlity for all almost makes Christianity look like its a vicious beast!

Men are being honoured, and God shunned by those in power. Of course not that openly, but quite slyly.

Americans would also do the Christian world a big favour if they could really mean what they say when they say 'In God we trust' - as a nation.

Please forgive me if this offends - I just felt it within my human rights to make a small comment to a big nation's people, coming from the heart.

[truthseeker]

Perhaps it's time for more Christian influence in our government.
It appears our government worships the god of money. If you dig deeply away from the corporate contolled news media, you will discover that the Big Banking Families control 90% of the world today.
They hate the light of truth and fight furiously against being exposed. I have entered "Christian" message boards who appear to be controlled by zionists, and are totally intolerant of any posts that threaten to expose the real powers behind governments.
Here is one of the most revealing articles I have ever read, and it really made sense of our governments problems. They are truly more spiritual than I ever imagined.

The History of the most powerful Bankers in the world (http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm)

[keturah]

We must not forget history and why America was seen as the new land of Milk and honey. Nor the reason our founding fathers had or the reason JESUS came when he did and called the Priest Vipers. I believe Jesus came so each and every person on earth could know God for themselves and in that knowledge love one another as he loved us. God is no longer Institutionalize, but personalize, not based on our own imagination but on the accurate knowledge of his word.
But it really isn't easy being like JESUS, he was longsuffering and tolerant, watering the seed every day and waiting for it to take root, Christians must be like him and let our truth shine that other will come unto Our Lord through us.
Grace be unto you. I new member of this forum