What do you think about women's hair?

[lovetowrite76]

Hi... I am just wondering what everyone thinks about the new testament scriptures regarding women having uncut hair. Do you believe that it is literal and women should not cut their hair? What if you do?

I'm asking because I was raised in a church that didn't allow you to cut your hair, but I no longer attend that church. They made a lot of rules that weren't necessarily Biblical, and I'm having a hard time letting go of some of the things that I was indoctrinated with now that I'm away from them. The church I attend now doesn't teach this, but I'm scared to go ahead and cut my hair because of what I was taught as a child... I know some believe that it is talking about a women's heart being covered by submission to her father or husband, and the long hair is symbolic, but I am confused... Please elaborate...

As a side note... It's interesting to me too that it's usually men that are trying to enforce this teaching, when they aren't affected by it personally... I would like some insight from women too, please...

April

[handsandfeet86]

the whole message of Paul's letter to the church at Galatia was this. Love God. Love others. Do whatever you want. Cause if you love God and you love people, you're not going to do something to hurt either. Jesus came to free us from the bondage of the law and to give us freedom in grace. Almost all of Paul's commands are universal truths that you and I better hold onto with all of our hearts. But some of them are cultural directives given to specific people at a specific place. This is one of those that most scholars agree was a cultural directive and is not something that we need to follow today.

Seek Him first
Serve Him only

Steve

[lovetowrite76]

Can you refer me to the bible scholars you mention? I'd be interested in reading more specifics on this topic... Historical and cultural research...

Thanks,

April

[zarxs]

It's difficult to tell if Paul was reinforcing a cultural norm which was common for him. Or if there was religious force behind his words. His use of the word "we" implys he was speaking on the behalf of the other apostles. Which could mean he was speaking with religious authority, or just trying to put force behind his personal opinion of the cultural norm by implying the other apostles happened to agree with him. It could easily be interpretted both ways. Cultural norms do not have to be carried forward but religious laws do. I guess how you decided how to handle it comes down to how you interpret it. Personally I would pray for guidence, remember the comfortable answer isn't always the right one.

There is another way to look at it... Do the differences between the sexes that they are eluding to still have value? Most of us live in a society that has tried for a generation at least to say there is no difference between the sexes. However the truth is there is quite a difference between the average male and the average female and that is ok. If there is value in these differences then embracing all that it means to be a woman or all that it means to be a man may be a excercise in healthy living. This may have been the wisedom Paul was trying to convey.

[OneJoe]

the whole message of Paul's letter to the church at Galatia was this. Love God. Love others. Do whatever you want. Cause if you love God and you love people, you're not going to do something to hurt either. Jesus came to free us from the bondage of the law and to give us freedom in grace. Almost all of Paul's commands are universal truths that you and I better hold onto with all of our hearts. But some of them are cultural directives given to specific people at a specific place. This is one of those that most scholars agree was a cultural directive and is not something that we need to follow today.

Seek Him first
Serve Him only

Steve
"Do whatever you want?" Perhaps doing the will of God is the point, doing what he wants...:-)

"Almost all of Paul's commands...." Truth is to obey all commands, not just what we like and don't like. What Paul wrote was inspired by God himself and was directed at all mankind, not just the people in a single church or geographical area. Paul may have been writing to a certain church at the time of his epistles; however, his GOD inspired words were not meant just for them. The laws and commands of the bible were meant for everyone to this day and no where in the bible does it mention that his inspired words would become of none effect. If some do not obey all of the bible then their judgment is in God's hands.

Anyhow, in relation to the question asked, where does the bible tell women not to cut their hair? I have read the scriptures in regard to women cutting their hair and the scriptures did not mention "not" cutting your hair. Furthermore, scripture does tell us that a woman's hair is meant to be a covering for her head, for it is a glory unto her. Some women do indeed allow their hair to grow to extreme lengths. I have seen this in the Pentecostal faith many times. I understand why they do not cut their hair; however, scripture does not say a woman can not cut it at all. Now I agree a woman should have long hair and a man should not, but I still don't see where the bible says not to cut your hair at all. Doesn't Paul say to "Judge in yourselves.."?

1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1Co 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

[lovetowrite76]

Anyhow, in relation to the question asked, where does the bible tell women not to cut their hair? I have read the scriptures in regard to women cutting their hair and the scriptures did not mention "not" cutting your hair. Furthermore, scripture does tell us that a woman's hair is meant to be a covering for her head, for it is a glory unto her. Some women do indeed allow their hair to grow to extreme lengths. I have seen this in the Pentecostal faith many times. I understand why they do not cut their hair; however, scripture does not say a woman can not cut it at all. Now I agree a woman should have long hair and a man should not, but I still don't see where the bible says not to cut your hair at all. Doesn't Paul say to "Judge in yourselves.."?

The teaching that I heard was that the literal translation of "long hair" was uncut hair. You're right though... it does say long hair... not "uncut" hair. I do believe that God wants me to have a covering (hair), and that I should look feminine, and there should be a distinct difference between how I look and how a man looks... I don't believe he wants me to look frumpy and dowdy either though, and that's not going to have a positive witness for Him, and I do need to be a light in this dark world. I appreciate all the of the responses, this really helps me work through some confusion and fear I've had on this topic...

April

[OneJoe]

Just to add a little note to what i previously posted, I will use this opportunity to hopefully clarify something else about this topic. There are some who do not agree with these scriptures today. They believe they could just as well mark out these scriptures in regard to women having long hair. Some claim that this was Paul's opinion more than anything; however, they fail to remember that Paul's authority was from Christ himself and inspired by God.

Do people really believe that it never occured to Paul that some might disagree with his teachings? The fact is it most certainly did occur to Paul that some people would not like it; however, we can see in verse 16 that he does enforce this teaching and not just for the church of Corinth.

In verse 16 Paul says..."1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." Now some might believe that Paul went through the trouble in verses 1-15 of explaining how a man and woman should keep their hair only to turn around and void his words in verse 16. Some believe that in verse 16 Paul was claiming that the churches didn't have a tradition of following this nor did the other churches, but rather he was establishing that all churches are to follow this teaching, not just Corinth. Paul knew that some would want to dispute or have contentions in regard to this teaching; however, this teaching was indeed applicable to all churches and all people to this day.

I prefer to remember what Paul says in Verse 2: "1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

[germanJoy]

When Jesus Christ walked on the earth, He never judged a person by his/her physical appearance. He always addressed the inner attitudes or the hearts of the people whom He dealt with including that of the Pharisees and Saducees. It was only after His ascension and when the believers had to return to their "normal" lives faced by their traditions and own cultures that many questions on certain practices, festivals/special days observances, rituals, dress codes/hair-covering, etc., were raised up. But funny that no one ever dared asking THE LORD JESUS Himself these questions because they knew HOW JESUS WOULD HAVE ANSWERED ALL OF THEM. He would direct the POINT TO THE INNER MAN not the OUTER MAN. Apostle Paul did a great job in maintaining the SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) of the jewish culture but Apostle Peter had faced the matter the way he expected His Lord to face it:

In the same way, you WIVES, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behaviour of their wives as they observe YOUR CHASTE AND RESPECTFUL BEHAVIOUR.
And let not your adornment be MERELY EXTERNAL-braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting in dresses;
BUT LET IT BE THE HIDDEN PERSON OF THE HEART, WITH THE IMPERISHABLE QUALITY OF A GENTLE AND QUIET SPIRIT, WHICH IS PRECIOUS IN THE SIGHT OF GOD."

What is precious in God's sight is a beautiful heart that possesses the quality of gentleness and quietness.

I do not admonish (even forbid them if I could) women to wear mini-skirts and deep-cut blouses/shirts (any improper clothing to tempt men). But if a woman is judged by her physical appearance (especially using scriptures against her like the Pharisees did to condem sinners), I believe it not to be godly.

[germanJoy]

When Jesus Christ walked on the earth, He never judged a person by his/her physical appearance. He always addressed the inner attitudes or the hearts of the people whom He dealt with including that of the Pharisees and Saducees. It was only after His ascension and when the believers had to return to their "normal" lives faced by their traditions and own cultures that many questions on certain practices, festivals/special days observances, rituals, dress codes/hair-covering, etc., were raised up. But funny that no one ever dared asking THE LORD JESUS Himself these questions because they knew HOW JESUS WOULD HAVE ANSWERED ALL OF THEM. He would direct the POINT TO THE INNER MAN not the OUTER MAN. Apostle Paul did a great job in maintaining the SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) of the jewish culture but Apostle Peter had faced the matter the way he expected His Lord to face it:

In the same way, you WIVES, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behaviour of their wives as they observe YOUR CHASTE AND RESPECTFUL BEHAVIOUR.
And let not your adornment be MERELY EXTERNAL-braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting in dresses;
BUT LET IT BE THE HIDDEN PERSON OF THE HEART, WITH THE IMPERISHABLE QUALITY OF A GENTLE AND QUIET SPIRIT, WHICH IS PRECIOUS IN THE SIGHT OF GOD." 1 Peter 3:1-4

What is precious in God's sight is a beautiful heart that possesses the quality of gentleness and quietness.

I do not admonish women though to wear mini-skirts and deep-cut blouses/shirts (any improper clothing to tempt men). But if a woman is judged by her physical appearance (especially using scriptures against her like the Pharisees did to condem sinners), I believe it not to be wise and godly. I find nothing wrong in following the old practice of having long hair, etc. but no one should judge a person who is freed from these practices by having short hair and wearing jeans as one living in sin.

[Potters House]

Hello,
Your reference to being symbolic is correct.
I have been around several groups of religious sects that are really hung up on womens dress. They make it part of their RELIGION. Women have rules and regs that apparently these men don't. I see it as a form of BONDAGE, no less than the muslim women having to wear berkas.
Yes, the verses are there for a reason. Women are not to be 'the man of the house' in speech or dress. This is out of order. However, it is our heart that God is concerned about, not what we wear. If a woman looks like a hooker, the problem is her heart.
So if all Christian women are to have the same dress code, imparted by man, I pity the African or aboriginal woman that is now forced to let her hair grow. Can you imagine? And the Christian Eskimo women that now have to wear skirts. They may freeze to death.
True, it is the men that are enforcing these teachings. And to that I say FINE. As long as these same men are wearing exactly what Paul was wearing at the time. ( Skirts) What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And pity the poor woman that has had chemo, and lost her hair. That in itself will show how ungodly a woman she really is, according to the their rules.
So if you need to put on your jeans to go out and bring in some firewood, know that God is more concerned you keep your family warm, than what it is that you are wearing. He wants your heart.
He gave us a brain, and hopefully we can have some common sense.
As for me, I may saddle up my horse today and ride out thru the mesquite. I will not be wearing a skirt. I will likely wear jeans, and chaps. And in the summer, perhaps carry a pistol for the rattlers. And lets not forget boots and spurs, cause Punkin can get stubborn when it comes to crossing the creek.
Does this take away my husbands spiritual authority over me? Absolutely not.
He is the spiritual authority over me no matter what I am wearing. ( If anything ) Ha!
So April, if you need to trim your hair, go right ahead. Your salvation is not in jepoardy. These guys don't know what its like to choke on a mouthful of hair when we're driving down the road with the windows down.
And as for the guys, with the shape America is in right now, I think its time for some of you to be like Issaiah. He was a very godly man. You should be dressed like he was for 3 1/2 years, as a sign and a wonder. To remind us of where this country is going.

[Potters House]

Amen German, and I say again, amen.

[lovetowrite76]

One of the reasons I left the church that I grew up in was because they are SO hung up on outward appearance, but are completely disregarding the gossiping, the judgemental self righteous attitudes, and the meanness of people towards each other. Jesus spent a lot of his ministry condemning the Pharisees and Saducess for this very thing, so why would I continue associating with this kind of religion?

I appreciate this insight, germanjoy, because this confirms what I've been feeling in my heart on this point... And good point about the apostles not asking Jesus during his ministry about the SOPs of the church, since the Pharisees and Saducees were doing their full share of that, and getting rebuked for their obsession with outward appearance... I can't think of the scripture right now, and don't have time to look it up (turkey dinner at my house today and I only have 1.5 hours before everyone is here... and just got up! LOL), but isn't there a passage where the Jews were trying to enforce their Jewish traditions on people, and the apostles admonished them that it was not necessary... go ahead and follow the traditions if you like, but it's not necessary.... (paraphrased here)...

April

[zarxs]

Good find, that verse says it all. Paul was known for reinforcing Jewish custom and that verse clarifies the observance of that custom by the Christians. In short it was still seen as a custom but it was now labeled that rather than treated as a law.

[handsandfeet86]

Can you refer me to the bible scholars you mention? I'd be interested in reading more specifics on this topic... Historical and cultural research...

Thanks,

April


MattHew Henry has a Bible commentary. I would recommend reading his commentary on Galatians. It's long, but it is a helpful study tool. Also, Zondervan publishes "The Expositor's Bible Commentary" in print and on CD. Once again, this is a very helpful study tool. Finally, Douglous P. Moo (yes, that's his name) has a commentary known as "The NIV Application Commentary." I don't agree with everything that he says, but he does have some good insights into Galatians. Most of these books would be available in your church library or from one of your pastors, I would imagine.

Seek Him first
Serve Him only

Steve

[m.o.m.]

Well said Potter. I can't imagine what i could add to it. I just wanted to thank you, my sister in the Lord, for posting it here. God Bless you>

m.o.m.

[justlookin]

onejoe referenced the 1 Corenthians passages but doesn't quote the issue
1 Corinthians 11

[justlookin]

onejoe referenced the 1 Corenthians passages but doesn't quote the issue
1 Corinthians 11 ... ir's really worth just reading it all.

The Corinthian culture was such tha make prostitutes wore long hair while women prostitutes shaved heir heads.

In that consoideration it stands to reason that Paul is not speaking to style or hair leangth or any other legalistic, or Phariseic rule of propriety.
After all, how can we claim to have kept any law when it is written that when we break one or part of the law we have broken it all?

Indeed why would Paul talk about hair cuts when he had let his hair grow having been under a vow to not cut it while he was in Corinth?
(See ACTS 18)

He is speaking to a problem or sexual immorality in the culture as well as in the church in Corinth.


Some want to takw this and make a legalistic issue out of it.
But a little hisrtory and digging a little deeper into the sc4ri[ptires reveals a statement of God's will for moral living, and that morality founded on His laws and those laws understood to having been given in LOVE and that love being perfect and SACRIFICIAL to the point of death, even death on a cross, by our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
All in order that though we by our own volitions are seperated from God in our willful sin, He so desires a persona;l ralationship with His beloved children.

Our responses are to be responses to His love.
Simply keeping the rules is religiosity.
Not relatioship.

greetings in His name.
I am deciding whether I will stay or not.
prayers are welcomed.
:)

[lovetowrite76]

So... I've decided to go ahead and have my hair cut... here's the style I've decided on... just thought it would be fun to share... :-) Personally, I think it's very feminine and still long... Both very important aspects of this decision...

http://www.just-hairstyles.com/curly/c11.htm

I spoke to my dad tonight, who has been an important spiritual mentor, someone I highly respect and honor, and he agreed with the ideas presented here, and the thoughts I've been having on this topic... I feel really great about my decision and am excited to present the new "me".

April

[zarxs]

I have two words for your choice of style... Just Beautiful! What I find funny is to most if not all of us, that IS long hair. I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

God Bless

[lovetowrite76]

Well, compared to the hair I have now... not so much... my hair is about 6 inches below my waist in length right now... LOL

April

[zarxs]

Have you considered that you could donate the excess hair to the making of wigs for people suffering from Chemotheropy and such and still have enough hair for your choosen style? It's rare people hair is long enough for wig making but yours definately would be. If you are interested, I'll track down the information.

[blueheron32]

One of the most widely known hair donation groups is Locks of Love...if you are going to have your hair cut at a salon..they will probably suggest such a contribution..here is their website address if you want to look into it..

http://www.locksoflove.org/

blue

[lovetowrite76]

I already looked into that, and being Canadian, the place I would donate to is Angel Hair for Kids. It all depends on whether I have enough hair left to donate or not... Of course I will donate it if there is...

April

[not4gotton]

I couldn't have said it any better Onejoe !