Zionist occupied Government? [Archive]

Pilgrim4truth

07-30-2006, 01:22 PM

AsI hear yet another person speaking out against the President and other leaders of this Country Iam reminded of what Paul wrote to us on this matter:

Rom 13:1 Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God. Rom 13:2 Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you,
Rom 13:4 because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil.
Rom 13:5 For this reason you must obey the authorities---not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.
Rom 13:6 That is also why you pay taxes, because the authorities are working for God when they fulfill their duties.
Rom 13:7 Pay, then, what you owe them; pay them your personal and property taxes, and show respect and honor for them all.
Rom 13:8 Be under obligation to no one---the only obligation you have is to love one another. Whoever does this has obeyed the Law.

Rufus

07-30-2006, 01:40 PM

AsI hear yet another person speaking out against the President and other leaders of this Country Iam reminded of what Paul wrote to us on this matter:

We are also called to rebuke evil and we are not to engage in state idolatry. We've got Christians sending their children off to battle to be slaughtered for an unjust cause thinking this is honorable. It is taxation on our labor that has built up the most evil world government system this earth has ever seen. Romans thirteen does not tell us to support evil and while we are to obey the kingdoms of this world, we are to do so as long as they do not interfere with the kingdom of God. The world is telling us to support that nation called "Israel" and Slaythebeast was providing evidence for why we should not do this thing. When this world government requires you to take a chip or to kill another human or to worship the image of the beast, will you blindly do so because you think Romans 13 tells you to or will you arm yourself with the whole truth of the matter and the whole counsel of God? At what point will you resist the rulers of the darkness of this world?

SlayTheBeast

07-30-2006, 07:33 PM

Pilgrim I think you are takes those verses woefully out of context.I believe he was only talking about the Roman authorities at the time he wrote it. If his followers had listened to the Judean authorities they would have had to deny our Christ.
Christians were slaughtered in Aitheist Communist Russia weather they resisted or not. Do you believe these leaders were sent by God? It could be said that many less would have died if more Christians were willing to fight when marxism first started.
Paul himself was in conflict with the authoritys in Judea as was Christ. Did Moses not rebel against the Egyptian Authorities? Paul himself speaks of this in Hebrews 3:16:

"Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?"

Matthew 12:50

"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Pilgrim4truth

07-30-2006, 08:55 PM

No, slaythebeastI have not taken these verses out of context. Nor did I make any claim what so ever in support of Israel or the war in the Middle East.

back to your comment on Romans 13, it is scary when I hear people claiming such and such a verse was only pertaining to that time and is not prevalent today. I can remember not long ago hearing countless people backing the appointment of a gay bishop using that same theology. The Bible (The Word of God) does not change, it is the same standard that was presented 2000 yrs ago that we must apply today.

Neither did I make a pro-Bush or a pro-Israel statement. I made the statement because one does err in not holding on to the truth of God's Word. To take a stance and say let us lash-out at the authorities because it can not be God who has allowed them into office takes the word of God and places it in a place of no authority nor power. Know you not that nothing at all happen's here in this world, in heaven and even in hell unless God so allow's it?

Jesus Christ has been given all Authority over all ! Matthew 28:18 "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth."
Look what Peter said speaking of Christ " who has gone to heaven and is at the right side of God, ruling over all angels and heavenly authorities and powers." The enemy has no authority over humans unless they submit to his authority yet even then no one comes to power unless God so allow's. Do you not remember what Jesus said to Pilot? "John 19:11 Jesus answered, "You have authority over me only because it was given to you by God. So we find out what here,that all authorities are under and subject to the Authotrity of God and Jesus Christ,to sum up this statement lets look again at Gods Word,not mans opinions of Gods Word
Eph 1:21 Christ rules there above all heavenly rulers, authorities, powers, and lords; he has a title superior to all titles of authority in this world and in the next.
Look at what Paul states in Romans 13 1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Where does Paul specify Roman authority? No slaythebeast that is your imput and opinon,I will stay with the Word of God. Look at the end of verse 1, to state what you are saying is to say that God, after the Roman empire crumbled ceased to be over Authrities.

Take heed to the lesson that King David taught us, when at the time King Saul was out to kill him and David had a chance to kill Saul. What did David do, he recognized a spiritual truth that you should adhere too. 1Sa 24:6 and he said to his men, "May the LORD keep me from doing any harm to my master, whom the LORD chose as king! I must not harm him in the least, because he is the king chosen by the LORD!"

I shall again state that I have made no pro-bush stance nor any pro-Israel stance, I have made a stance upon the foundational truth of Gods Word, one can bend it any way one pleases to justify their opinion, but I will stick with what the Word of the Lord clearly states, it was good for that time and shall stand for all eternity.

foundinHim

07-31-2006, 06:31 PM

In God's Word, aren't we instructed to pray for our leaders?

(1Tim.2:1-3) "I exhort therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;"

(2Tim.1:3) "I thank God, Whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day,"

SlayTheBeast

07-31-2006, 07:21 PM

Pilgrim4truth

07-31-2006, 08:44 PM

I noticed you dont even try to address the obvious holes in your theory Pilgrim. And I think you boast too much Pilgrim that your opinion of scripture is God's word.
My opinion and the opinion of millions of Christian of martyrs is that you must fight for the Lord with every fiber of your being. Furthermore I believe anyone who does any less endangers their soul to the Fire. And if arent even willing to tell the truth about any corrupt authority how will you ever be able to speak the Truth when the Beast is in power?

I am afraid that I do not follow you here slaythebeast,

Number one, my works shall not prevent me from the fire lest I should boast that I am saved by works which I surely do not as I confess that I am saved but by the grace of God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Further more, no I do not believe that I must fight for the Lord, Know you not that the battle has already been won, when upon the cross our Savior died and won the victory and He mad a public spectacle of the enemy. Secondly to this matter I must war only in prayer and in that very facet must I do it as with the example that Christ gave us, to pray forth the will of God according to His desire not my own. Our Father who art in Heaven,Holy, Holy, Holy is Your Name,Thy Kingdom come,Thy will be done....

As to your proclamation in regard to speaking forth the truth, this is a true statement, but not in your method. The truth that needs to be proclaimed is the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" for it is the message of Christ that those whom are lost shall be saved. Jesus said that we are to be sent out making disciples in His Name, teaching them all that He has taught us. Again I post a lesson taught us by Jesus Christ as He surely was above the one in authority who questioned Him: John 19:11 Jesus answered, "You have authority over me only because it was given to you by God." I pray tell that you show where Jesus has taught what you are professing. So I shall speak with the example out-lined by God through the Apostle Paul;

Rom 2:16 And so, according to the Good News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all.
Rom 16:25 Let us give glory to God! He is able to make you stand firm in your faith, according to the Good News I preach about Jesus Christ and according to the revelation of the secret truth which was hidden for long ages in the past.
Rom 16:26 Now, however, that truth has been brought out into the open through the writings of the prophets; and by the command of the eternal God it is made known to all nations, so that all may believe and obey.
Rom 16:27 To the only God, who alone is all-wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever! Amen

2Co 4:3 For if the gospel we preach is hidden, it is hidden only from those who are being lost.
2Co 4:4 They do not believe, because their minds have been kept in the dark by the evil god of this world. He keeps them from seeing the light shining on them, the light that comes from the Good News about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2Co 4:5 For it is not ourselves that we preach; we preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake

And lastly:
"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." (1 Cor. 1:17 NIV)

With this message in my mouth shallI speak the "TRUTH" when the beast is in power, especially with the revelation given in Gods Holy Word that Jesus Christ has been given all authority,and that I fear not him who may destroy my body, but praise and worship Him who has saved me and through the redeemtion of His cleansing blood I have eternal life.

The scriptures that I have listed throughout this thread are not my opinions slaythebeast, but the Word of the One true Living God.
You can speak forth as you will, but I shall only tell the people what Christ has spoken as recorded in the Bible through those whom God chose as faithful witnesses to His Words.;)

SlayTheBeast

07-31-2006, 10:11 PM

SealedEternal

07-31-2006, 10:40 PM

Eph 6:17 .... and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

SealedEternal

Pilgrim4truth

08-01-2006, 04:45 AM

Matthew 10:34

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Jeremiah 48:10

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!
A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!"

So you wish to use Jermemiah 48:10 as an example?
Jeremiah 48:10
10Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.[/B]

Ok,I will use a scripture as well, the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, for it is by His example that we must live under the New covenant that Jesus has established for us to live under.

[B]Matthew 26:52
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Apposed to the sword that you speak of, God has shown us what we are truly up against;
Ephesians 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Again the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ
"You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were in effect until John came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone tries to enter it by force. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped." (Luke 16:15-17)

There is no other force that can save us, apart from our Love for God and there is no other ambition than to serve selflessly and compassionately for our fellow human beings. Our driving force therefore and our life ambition should be non other than to lift up our Cross daily and follow Christ.

Jesus sent his disciples as sheep amongst wolves, can you imagine if he said I send you as wolves amongst sheep? How different would Christianity be today.

Yes,we are to wage war today as Christians, but through prayer and by destroying the foolishness of the world views with the "Gospel of Jesus Christ", completly and always with use of the one true "sword" the Word of God.;)

SlayTheBeast

08-01-2006, 06:10 PM

Matthew 26:52
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

You cite this as example for your pacifist belief system, but you take it out of context and in no way look at the setting at the moment He said this. His disciples were surrounded by the large crowd of armed assailants sent by the chief priests. His followers would have surely been slain if they had raised their swords.His instructions were only to his disciples at that moment. Why would his followers be allowed to carry swords in the first place if the Truth was pacifism?

Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

With these verse he clearly speaks against pacifism and tells us their is no sin in self defense.

John 2:15

Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple. He drove out the sheep and oxen, scattered the money changers' coins over the floor, and turned over their tables.

With his actions He tells us there is a time for action.

Pacifism is an easy belief system to have, it usually means you dont have to stick out your neck for anything. But I find pacifism to be cowardice, heresy and slander against all the brave Christians that fought and died for us.

Rufus

08-01-2006, 07:29 PM

Matthew 26:52
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

You cite this as example for your pacifist belief system, but you take it out of context and in no way look at the setting at the moment He said this. His disciples were surrounded by the large crowd of armed assailants sent by the chief priests. His followers would have surely been slain if they had raised their swords.His instructions were only to his disciples at that moment. Why would his followers be allowed to carry swords in the first place if the Truth was pacifism?

Well now I have to switch teams :) His instructions were to be disciples always and the disciples of Christ are not violent. That bumbled example of swordsmanship is the only example you will find of a disciple of Christ raising a sword to slay someone. They were allowed to carry swords because they were still battling their fleshly instincts rather than putting their trust in Jesus Christ. Jesus is not looking for people to battle a physical war for Him. The next verse expresses that.

"Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" - Matthew 26:53

He could've put an end to all of those sorry folks with the breath of His mouth but what would that have meant for us?

SlayTheBeast

08-01-2006, 07:36 PM

They why did he tell his disciples to sell their clothes and buy swords against the transgressors (Luke 22:36) Rufus?

Rufus

08-01-2006, 08:05 PM

Matthew 26:52
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

With these verse he clearly speaks against pacifism and tells us their is no sin in self defense.

This verse is not necessarily as clear as you suggest. What is the Biblical definition of the word "sword"?

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." - Hebrews 4:12

"Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." - Revelation 2:16

The sword can be defined as being the Word of God.

Of course there are references to the sword as being the one described in battle. However, it is often used in a negative context:
"Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment." - Job 19:29
or

"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." - Matthew 26:52

The question becomes do you believe that he was referring to a metal sword or the Word of God. When the disciples told Jesus that they had two swords. What was His reaction?

"And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough." - Luke 22:38

Were two metal swords really enough to engage against the enemy they were facing? I submit that the disciples didn't get what Christ was talking about. I would suggest that Jesus was telling them, if you don't have a Bible you better go buy one because the Word of John 1:1 and 1 John 5:7 was about to leave.

Rufus

08-01-2006, 08:17 PM

Pacifism is an easy belief system to have, it usually means you dont have to stick out your neck for anything. But I find pacifism to be cowardice, heresy and slander against all the brave Christians that fought and died for us.

Pacifism is one of the least easy belief systems to have as it is unpopular with both the enemies of Christ and even those who profess His name. Everyone wants to kill each other and yet this is a principle that Christians are commanded to not do and there is no new testament argument for why we should go around killing each other. It is also one of the very tools that the Zionists are using against us.

"He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness," - Matthew 19:18

SlayTheBeast

08-01-2006, 08:59 PM

Pacifism is one of the least easy belief systems to have as it is unpopular with both the enemies of Christ and even those who profess His name. Everyone wants to kill each other and yet this is a principle that Christians are commanded to not do and there is no new testament argument for why we should go around killing each other. It is also one of the very tools that the Zionists are using against us.

"He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness," - Matthew 19:18

To your first post I agree that sword can be used metaphoricaly but it can also be used literally and in the context of that verse Christ tells thems to sells there clothes to buy swords pointing he is talking clearly about the physical world. The disciples tell him they have two swords and he says that that is enough, showing that both Christ and his disciples agree about what type of sword He is refering to. Secondly...

Thou shalt not Murder. The key term is here is murder.

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.
To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.

In context "thou shall not murder" means to not kill outside God's Law.
Was Moses a murderer? Was Christ a murderer? Is God a murderer?

Revelation 2:23
23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

Pilgrim4truth

08-01-2006, 09:14 PM

Pacifism is an easy belief system to have, it usually means you dont have to stick out your neck for anything. But I find pacifism to be cowardice, heresy and slander against all the brave Christians that fought and died for us.

Really?You claim that I am a pacifist? You claim that I dare not stick my neck out for the sake of the Kingdom?

When slaythebeast was the last time you stuck out your neck? When was the last time that you went in to a foriegn land where it is illegal to preach the Gospel?

Lets see,I returned from Iraq in Febuary after a mission trip there, but I guess I was not putting my neck out enough for you right. I have been to China a least 11 times proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I have been to South America even into the jungle regions where they will kill you if they find you preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Weare presently plaining a trip the Afghanistan for November of this year, but I guess you wouldconcider that to be a safe place right?

Slaythebeast I have seen you call people all types of names throughout several of your post, yet I have notseen once put forth the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I have not seen once where you have attempted to deliver the message of the Kingdom of God to one that may come across this Christian site in search of the truth. All I have seen from you is the ability of displaying a judgmental spirit if one does not agree with you and that is truly a shame, for one that spends so much time in the Bible you have yet to find the keys to the Kingdom and to go forth in the power of Holy Spirit to reach lost souls and be a Kingdom minded, Christ-like disciple maker.

I have presented my veiw on the matter and have not allowed the flesh to rise up and lash out with name calling, for it is far more important for me to show forth the love of Christ to all. The be that light upon which to direct men to the One who is worthy of all honor, glory and praise.

May Gods love be poured out in your heart and may you come to the full knowledge of the purpose and destiny God has for you.

And to you Rufus, I see that you fellow Pilgim have found the keys of the Kingdom, as you have spoken as one who understands the teaching's of the Master Jesus Christ.

Wendell

08-01-2006, 11:13 PM

Everyone wants to kill each other and yet this is a principle that Christians are commanded to not do and there is no new testament argument for why we should go around killing each other. It is also one of the very tools that the Zionists are using against us.

Rufus..:-) false statement number one.... every one does not want to kill each other.... there are those who do want to do murder, but "everyone" is far too broad a term..

number two....There are indeed new testament arguements, and principals that establish that the sword to be used to establish order in the world is a physical sword, and it is used to take life if required.... nor do I see any prohibition in scripture against christians being involved in civil authority, which would also include bearing the sword...

Christians, as we fulfull the mandate give us, to go into all the world and preach the gospel, do not do so by running around killing each other, nor do we run around killing those who dont wish to be christians.... Preaching the gospel, is done with a sword as you have rightly asserted.... the sword of the spirit is the word of God, the bible alone and in its entirety... It is that sword alone that is used to bring the kingdom of God to the nations, as it is applied by the Holy Spirit... But the truth of the sword of the Lord, does not eliminate the biblical truth of the use of the physical sword....

There are two sides of every commandment rufus....positive and negative... the command says...Thou shalt not do murder.. that is the negative side of the command ment.. the positive side of that command is....Thou shalt preserve life...protect the oppressed.. deliver the victim... Those things are not done by pacifism.... they are done by placing oneself in jeopardy.... and perhaps, the necessary use of the sword....

blueheron32

Rufus

08-02-2006, 12:23 AM

Rufus..:-) false statement number one.... every one does not want to kill each other.... there are those who do want to do murder, but "everyone" is far too broad a term..

Surely you don't think that I meant everyone as in 100% of humanity...forgive the broad generalization as I know there's at least a dozen of us that wish we weren't killing on behalf of God :) . What I was referring to is how the "Christian" nations of this world, (US, UK, Australia et al) seem to think it's okay to slaughter civilians and somehow they can rationalize it because the people they are slaughtering don't have the same color skin, or adhere to the same religion. Put up a false flag (9/11) attack and the principalities get support from the "Christian" citizens to wage war on nations that have not attacked us? Then we say all these children that are dying at the end of our military sword are not being murdered because we have a different word for that, we call it "war". Yet, legally it's not "war" because congress hasn't declared it but the media calls it the "war on terrorism" to "protect our freedoms" and so the "Christians" fall into order and say "go ahead bomb 'em, cuz we're not wussy pacifists." Why don't Christians rebuke this evil instead of support it?

number two....There are indeed new testament arguements, and principals that establish that the sword to be used to establish order in the world is a physical sword, and it is used to take life if required.... nor do I see any prohibition in scripture against christians being involved in civil authority, which would also include bearing the sword...

I would be glad to entertain these arguments. I don't think they exist. Jesus Christ did not kill anyone nor did he interfere when people close to him like John the Baptist was killed by Herod. Paul stopped killing when he became a Christian. How many rocks did Stephen throw as he was being stoned to death? Many instances of false imprisonment and yet no rebellion, no call to arms no Christian warfare. There were Romans that had positions in the military that came to Christ but was there an example of a follower of Christ who signed up for Caesar's military?

Christians, as we fulfull the mandate give us, to go into all the world and preach the gospel, do not do so by running around killing each other, nor do we run around killing those who dont wish to be christians....There are many that do go around killing...they think it's their Christian duty to join the military and who becomes their ruler when they do this God or the state? Regardless, whether or not we pull the trigger, if we support these actions then we have murder in our hearts.

There are two sides of every commandment rufus....positive and negative... the command says...Thou shalt not do murder.. that is the negative side of the command ment.. the positive side of that command is....Thou shalt preserve life...protect the oppressed.. deliver the victim... Those things are not done by pacifism.... they are done by placing oneself in jeopardy.... and perhaps, the necessary use of the sword....

What life is being preserved by our actions in Iraq, what life is being preserved by our actions in Afghanistan? What life is being preserved by Israel's attack on Lebanon? How many did we save in Korea, or Vietnam? Yet in the places where we should be protecting life like Sudan and East Timor, we sit on our hands or twiddle our thumbs. Heck, if we were interested in preserving life there are 40 million Americans we could've saved in our back yard if we weren't so wicked. I wonder if Terri Schiavo thinks we are good protectors of life?

If we are talking about defending one's home than that's one argument but if we are talking about what this thread is titled...we should not be supporting this wickedness. No Empire has ever fallen by attack from without. Always within does the fall occur. Slaythebeast has identified the enemy in this thread and the enemy is within. There is no Biblical argument in my humble discernment for why we should fight Caesar's or the Zionist's wars and kill/murder people in the process. Yet there seems to me to be a greater Biblical position for why we should be a loving people of peace.

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" - Matthew 5:44

Pilgrim4truth

08-02-2006, 04:31 AM

As for Blueheron's post,there are two swords referred to in the Bible a statement which is correct.

Bravo Rufus "Yet there seems to me to be a greater Biblical position for why we should be a loving people of peace." This is a very important key, one that should be applied by all, even when posting on Christian web-sites.

Our war as Christians should not be in the physical ,rather it is a spiritual war we fight, with our Commander in Chief, Jesus Christ, leading the way. Our hands should be raised in war, reaching out to bring forth the will of God in every situation that He directs us too,especially praying for the saints at all times.

For our enemy is un-seen with the naked eye, yet his carnage if left for the world to see . Homeless-ness, drug addiction, broken homes,violent crimes against all men, especially children, people falling from the faith, Christians against Christians,the many false doctrines thrust upon the masses. This fellow Pilgrim's is a small portion of the front lines that we need most to be at war, praying the Fathers Will be done here on earth as it is in heaven. To always have the mind of Christ and be about doing the Kingdom business. And most of all showing the world the true Love of God.

John 13:34,35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Wendell

08-02-2006, 11:28 PM

Rufus

08-03-2006, 10:49 AM

I must admit, rufus, I was picking on you a little, and did not really believe that you meant, "every one"... But that is the word you used, so if words mean anything, "everyone", means every one... unless there is another definition that I am not aware of. So if by, everyone, you meant the christian nations, then you would have to tell me what a christian nation is... Is the USA a christian nation?? I wasnt aware of that...

Yep...you're right I was wrong to use the word "everyone".

I was not claiming that I believe the USA is a Christian nation but many make this claim and is why I originally placed that expression in quotes. In the United States 52% consider themselves to be Protestant and thus think they are Christian, 24% are Catholic and thus consider themselves to be Christian, 2% call themselves Mormon and thus consider themselves to be Christian. Thus, 78% of America calls themselves "Christian" which could be a good argument for considering this nation to be a "Christian" nation since three out of every 4 people supposedly are. However, since we are to know them by their fruits, I think we can all agree that there is hardly 3 out of every 100 people in America that are Christian much less 3 out of every 4.

on the second note....:-) I didnt say, I wished to entertain the new testament arguements.... I simply stated that those arguements do exist, and in fact had a significant role, in creating this nation, you have called christian. The arguments may exist, they're just not very good. ;)

Some of your further points, I do not disagree with....some of them we would have to reason together to find out... your last point, demonstrates however that you also are not totally a pacifist....:-) A mans defense of his home and family, is a corner stone of a free and lawful society...

In the world's definition, I am 100% a pacifist:

pac·i·fism
1. The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully.
2.
1. Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving disputes.
2. Such opposition demonstrated by refusal to participate in military action.
(Source: dictionary.com)

If a sorry heathen threatens the lives of my family and I have no other recourse, I will give him two to the chest. I will remain however, a "pacifist" according to the definition above and I will continue to pray for God's protection over my family that I will never be faced with this circumstance.

Having said that, I don't care for worldly definitions and since the word "pacifist" or "pacifism" is not in the Bible I prefer the word "peacemaker".:-)

"Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness." - James 3:18

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." - Matthew 5:9

Pilgrim4truth

08-03-2006, 06:23 PM

Well said Rufus, Well said.

SlayTheBeast

08-03-2006, 11:25 PM

Pilgrim4truth

08-04-2006, 04:28 AM

Peacemakers are those that resolve conflict, which is often done by force.
I see little peace in our country as it is now, we are only becoming more divided.
The first battle is always to speak the Truth. But lastly and unfortunatley, to secure peace you often must be prepared for war.

What the Bible say's in regard to this:

Eph 6:10-24

10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. 21But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
22Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts. 23Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

Rufus

08-04-2006, 08:14 AM

SlayTheBeast

08-04-2006, 11:44 AM

phillipschwann

08-04-2006, 12:08 PM

This whole conversation has been so full of hate, I can hardly believe it. Is this truly the way?

Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Should we pray for Israel? Even if you do not think that they are a nation formed and chosen by God, the answer is still yes. The same as we pray for every nation, every leader, and every indivdual. We pray that God's will be done, and that He will show His light to the world, drawing men unto him. Brothers and sisters why is this an issue? Lay down your arms and turn your hearts and minds to God.

To God be the power and the glory forever

Amen

SlayTheBeast

08-04-2006, 12:53 PM

The truth is hate for those who hate the Truth.

Revelation 12

17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 13

4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

Rufus

08-04-2006, 03:02 PM

This whole conversation has been so full of hate, I can hardly believe it. Is this truly the way?

Disagree. I would say that everyone in this thread is making their arguments the best way they know how and defending for the faith. Just because all parties are not in agreement does not mean that they are full of hate.

Should we pray for Israel? Even if you do not think that they are a nation formed and chosen by God, the answer is still yes.

Agree wholeheartedly. We should pray that the inhabitants of the nation-state called Israel come to faith in the way, truth and life and that they become pro-Christ rather than anti-Christ. (Perhaps if this occured they would stop killing civilians :tu.) I would also pray that Christians start caring more about Christians than they do about those folks that hate Christ.

The same as we pray for every nation, every leader, and every indivdual. We pray that God's will be done, and that He will show His light to the world, drawing men unto him. Brothers and sisters why is this an issue? Lay down your arms and turn your hearts and minds to God.

This is a God issue. This is one of the most significant God issues in our times and every time before us. Being ignorant of the wiles of the devil is not wise and putting our heads in the ground while we sing kumbaya is the very thing that has brought us to this predicament.

To God be the power and the glory forever

In all Christian love, Amen!

SlayTheBeast

08-04-2006, 05:11 PM

Disagree. I would say that everyone in this thread is making their arguments the best way they know how and defending for the faith. Just because all parties are not in agreement does not mean that they are full of hate.

Agree wholeheartedly. We should pray that the inhabitants of the nation-state called Israel come to faith in the way, truth and life and that they become pro-Christ rather than anti-Christ. (Perhaps if this occured they would stop killing civilians :tu.) I would also pray that Christians start caring more about Christians than they do about those folks that hate Christ.

This is a God issue. This is one of the most significant God issues in our times and every time before us. Being ignorant of the wiles of the devil is not wise and putting our heads in the ground while we sing kumbaya is the very thing that has brought us to this predicament.

In all Christian love, Amen!

Now theres something we can agree on Rufus. :tu

Pilgrim4truth

08-04-2006, 10:33 PM

Ephesians 6
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

This negates youre former position that we are not to fight against evil authorities and it tells us plainly that it is also a fight in this world. Yes our struggle is not against flesh and blood it is bigger than that, it is evil incarnate that we fight, unfortunately to defend ourselves sometimes we must fight the corrupted flesh. Pacifism is a nice thought but look at Marxist Russia, I'm sure many Christians thought they could negotiate with the Marxists and talk out a peacefull coexistance. But when the Marxists came to power they wiped out the Christians in the millions. Is this the peace you long for?

Jeremiah 51:20

Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;

slaythebeast,

At whose expense do we reach the peace you speak of. If I were to read Jeremiah with my fleshly mind I would stand in your corner, but as I read it with the mind of Christ I see it in a totally different view. With God all things are possible.

Is it not God who can change the hearts of Kings?
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Was it not the Spirit of God that David saw go before him and break thru the breaches of his enemies on the day he was crowned King?

2 Samuel 5:20
And David came to Baalperazim, and David smote them there, and said, The LORD hath broken forth upon mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters. Therefore he called the name of that place Baalperazim.

The view you hold is that of many mistaken Christians over the centuries who failed to realize that winning the Kingdom war was not by their might but by that of the Lord God.
Zechariah 4:6
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

slaythebeast writes; But when the Marxists came to power they wiped out the Christians in the millions.

Deuteronomy 7:21
Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.

When will the body of believers steps into the Authority that Christ has given us and realize that we hold a greater weapon than man can create, even that of the nuclear missile, its called the power of prayer. It can only be fully powered when we stop praying what we think God might do and start spending time in prayer getting to know the heart of God and start praying forth His will, not our own.

So which is more powerful slaythebeast, your view or Gods word?

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

SlayTheBeast

08-05-2006, 12:22 AM

slaythebeast,

At whose expense do we reach the peace you speak of. If I were to read Jeremiah with my fleshly mind I would stand in your corner, but as I read it with the mind of Christ I see it in a totally different view. With God all things are possible.

Is it not God who can change the hearts of Kings?
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Was it not the Spirit of God that David saw go before him and break thru the breaches of his enemies on the day he was crowned King?

2 Samuel 5:20
And David came to Baalperazim, and David smote them there, and said, The LORD hath broken forth upon mine enemies before me, as the breach of waters. Therefore he called the name of that place Baalperazim.

The view you hold is that of many mistaken Christians over the centuries who failed to realize that winning the Kingdom war was not by their might but by that of the Lord God.
Zechariah 4:6
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

slaythebeast writes; But when the Marxists came to power they wiped out the Christians in the millions.

Deuteronomy 7:21
Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.

When will the body of believers steps into the Authority that Christ has given us and realize that we hold a greater weapon than man can create, even that of the nuclear missile, its called the power of prayer. It can only be fully powered when we stop praying what we think God might do and start spending time in prayer getting to know the heart of God and start praying forth His will, not our own.

So which is more powerful slaythebeast, your view or Gods word?

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

When you speak that you have the "mind of Christ" and how much closer you are to Christ than me, you truly show everyone how far away from Christ you are. Your egotism maybe your undoing.
You even post verses that back what I'm stating and somehow you want to twist them to suit your ends. If God gave the Authority to David and his men how do you figure he could never give that same authority to us?
I give you many verse that show that God's will is done through his people and you ignore them. It is not surpising your view of the history of Christianity seems basically the same as the media's that Christianity has been routinely misguided and basically evil. It is was not misguided, it was not evil, it was right and it is why we are here today. The media wants to slander true Christianity and wants us to do nothing. By your own words, you cant even speak out against the Beast Pilgrim. See the Truth Pilgrim.
Yes we should pray but thats not all, even many nonbelievers pray. The first step is to speak the Truth. But theres also a time for works. Pilgrim here are some more verses that hopefully may help you see the flaws of your man made theory. The test is to stand against the Beast. You are wrong Pilgrim we can wage war against the Beast.

Numbers 23

6 Then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and into the woman's body. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The LORD said to Moses, 11 "Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites; for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal I did not put an end to them. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites."

SlayTheBeast

08-05-2006, 12:31 AM

Pilgrim let me ask you a simple question. If someone broke into your house and you believed you and your family was in danger, would you not defend them?

Pilgrim4truth

08-05-2006, 10:34 AM

Number one, You continue to call me a pacifist, yet you know little about me, the fact that I served two tours in Vietnam would prove otherwise. I did so as firstly I serve a God who is over all Governments and authorities, secondly because I was drafted by a Government, yet I know that God is, and was in authority over them. Even as I saw three of my sons in the Military, one still serving and has been in Iraq for 11 months now, who by the way holds a nightly Bible and prayer meeting in the midst of being surrounded by the enemy.

Secondly, answer to your question in regard to my house, I answer it with Bible context. What would Jesus do? Exactly what He did when He found thieves in His Fathers house.

Number three, again you do not know me, how can you judge me that I am brain washed by the Media, for the last time I watched T. V. or read a News Paper was in the early seventies

Number four, why have you failed to answer my questions as to why you continue to speak out against others in the name of Jesus,yet I have never seen own word as to the "Gospel message" come from you.

Why to you down others, when you do not even begin to build up the saints in Faith?

Why do all your post appear to mainly look down upon others?

There is a very Large difference between the gods others pray to and the true God true Christians pray to.

You say that because I speak of having the mind of Christ I have a big ego? Strange as the Bible clearly states that those who are reborn unto God have the mind of Christ.

We are born into a sinful world, and can only be saved by and through Jesus Christ. Sinful man has waged war against each other in the name of religion far centuries, and will continue until the return of Christ. What are we as Christians to do, start wars to slay the beast, or are we to follow the message that Jesus taught us leading me through the Gospel to the Lord Jesus Christ that they my receive Him as Lord and Savior?

Gal 5:16-24
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

One last question, your post are mainly centered against the zionist, those who I surely do not support, yet you use many of the same scriptures to defend your view. Why is that?

SlayTheBeast

08-05-2006, 04:45 PM

From reading that post Pilgrim it sounds like we might be in some agreement afterall. I'm not a warmonger. I understand war is terrible thing. But I do believe in defense, so if someone was going to butcher my family I would defend them. In the same way if someone was going to butcher my Christians brothers and Sisters I would defend them. I'm not sure if I understand your question compeletly but let me see if I can answer. If I thought the Israelies were truly only defending themselves I would support them, but the history of their actions I see another aim to their so called defense and that is control of the Middle East. Everywhere they go, they manipulate,they oppress, they corrupt, and they butcher. They cause people to hate them. They corrupt our media, our politicans, our country, oppress the Palestinians, next the Lebanese, they butcher everyone and then wander why people hate them.

hearthammer

08-05-2006, 05:39 PM

The government is ruled by men who are in bondage to the god of this world,
The media is ran by men in bondage to the god of this world, Satan.
Israel is ran by men in bondage to the god of this world,

I do not hold to the antisemitic air that these questions are bringing forth.
The Nazis believed the Jews were behind communism....
Who was behind the Nazis? The professing church in Germany! Men that were told from the pulpits that Hitler was similar to Christ. These Germans would willingly (under the thin detachment of "just following orders") march millions of Jews into ovens and mass graves. All because they were convinced Jews were not worthy of life. And consider this; Countries all around the world (America included) did not want to take the Jews in when Germany offered to deport them to other countries. That is the whole reason for the final solution to solve the Jewish problem. Jews have always suffered at the hands of proclaiming Christians. The true body of Christ would not persecute Jews because we our selves know what it is to experience persecution. Do not forget that 2 million christians were killed by the nazis for trying to help the Jews or for speaking out against the Nazis. I am not saying all Jews are good but I am saying they are not all evil. Zionists as you call them are, to me, no different than the ecumenical movements seeking to establish government based on the bible. This is antibiblical and antichristian. God's will cannot be legislated by men. One day all the governments (and the men who run them)will be brought to their knees before the Son of the Living God. Until then I will trust what God says about His chosen people. He still has plans for Israel and will keep for himself a remnant of them. Read Hosea chapter 6 and you will see that the two days represents 2000yrs and in the third day they will turn again to their Lord, and He will raise them up. There are many other verses that reflect that God is not finished with the nation of Israel. I will not get into that aspect of it. I will just say that this line of thinking has caused many to rise up and kill thinking they are doing God's service. I assure you they are not.
Take care and God be with you.

SlayTheBeast

08-05-2006, 08:30 PM

Theres a reason Jewish Hollywood makes a holocaust movie every other year so that any attack on them can be compared to Nazism. The fact is they have and continue to work against our Christ and there is no sin to speak out against it. And the holocaust against Christians of the Jewish founded U.S.S.R. was even greater than that of the Nazi holocaust.
I do not advocate hurting anyone but their anti-christ dealings must be exposed. How deep are we going to let them corrupt our country before its ok to speak the truth? It doesnt make me a nazi to speak the Truth it makes me a Christian.

larry

08-06-2006, 02:20 AM

Slay the Beast. I read the first portion of the site you gave from your thread: "When Christian Warriors Saved Europe" These Christians followed Alfonso who they later cursed, and you say this is the way to go?

Quotes below from the site you gave: "The Battle of Las Novas de Tolosa (1212)

The second account is the report which Alfonso sent to the Pope just days after the battle.

The Muslims surrendered it to Alfonso after he had given them a safe conduct. Thereupon, a large number of the Christians withdrew from Alfonso (may God curse him!), when he prevented them from killing the Muslims who were in the castle. They said, “You have only brought us along to help you conquer the country, and forbid us to plunder and kill the Muslims. We don't lave any need of your company [if we're only going to act] in this.
__________________________________________________ _____________

And just what Christian army ever reported to the POPE, or Vicar of Christ, or in the place of Christ. Sounds more like anti-Christ. Again I see criticism for everyone not thinking your way of hate, and like Pilgrim for Truth said, you seem to avoid questions asked of you, and if you do respond, they are others opinions like those web sites you post. Does scripture in context for this age ever enter into you responses?

1. Do you consider the POPE Christian, or how do you consider Catholics?

2. Would even one person not being Christian, cause them to be other than a Christian Army?

3. What if even one dwelling in the Muslim nation was Christian like those in Lebanon today?

4. If they were Catholic, should other Christians have fought and destroyed them?

5. What if there are Christians in Israel today fighting for their lives with the Army there?

6. Shall Christians unite here and rebel against our country that isn't all Christian? If they are not Christian, they are not with Christ.

7. Do we refute Judaism, or destroy Israel. Should we pray for them?

8. Do you consider the Jew and Judaism as one and the same?

9. The Catholic Church owns more than anyone, is not Christian, and rules countries - when do we attack?

10. Is there any group, or nation we should fight?

11. Is there any political work we can do to help put those in power He wants to put there?

12. Do you consider Arian Nation, KKK, or Minute Men as having truth?

13. Do you consider the Bible as our source as how to treat our authority, country, and leaders God says He put in authority over us according to Romans chapter 13?

I'm thankful for this country and the things we have here, and for people like Pilgrim For Truth, who did make a stand for what he believes. When Jesus was here, he gave taxes to Rome who had a government far worse than ours. Is the world right? No, but I know Who is going to get it changed, and I look toward His soon coming. If you are born again, we are not of this world and are not to be entangled in it. Let pigs have their slop; we have food they know not of.

Continue to make enough noise, and maybe some will listen to you -
Opinions instead of scripture work for some, just as noise instead of music seems to work for those liking Rap.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Quoting you from thread "Zionist occupied Government? "It doesnt make me a nazi to speak the Truth it makes me a Christian.

We differ here, I am known as a Christian because I accepted Jesus as my savior.

SlayTheBeast

08-06-2006, 06:50 PM

Matthew 18:6
"But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Just who is full of hate Larry? Because I care about whats happening to our people and speak the truth or is it you who hears the truth resents it and wishes to slander me? I have used scriptures repeatedly to show the truth of my words I have used undeniable facts to show what I say is true. If you can prove me a liar why dont you? Prove to me Judaism hasnt corrupted our media, it doesnt slander Christ, it doesnt endorse drugs, sodomy and every kind of sin? Prove me wrong Larry. Prove to me you dont hate the truth. And if you cant face the truth, dont ever complain about the corrupt media,the corrupt politicians the corrupt world as whole. Youre either with the Christ or with the World.
The term hate speech has been coined by the media masters. They say youre full of hate if you dont believe in judaism,sodomy etc. Its a tool that supposed to quell all discussion on the subject.
I care about people that is why I'm here. I knew I would receive the slings and arrows from those that have been brainwashed by the anti-christ media and corrupt preachers, but I will just turn my cheek and keep speaking the truth. Now lets see if I answer this list of questions which I'm curious why you want my opinion since you dont seem to value it, but since I care Ill try to answer it anyway.

1 I consider the present Catholic Church to completely corrupt and thus not Christian.

2 I would say any army that has its majority being Christian and is organized for Christian aims I would consider a Christian army.

3 I think that would be good.

4 I really dont understand the hatred for Catholics here. Catholicism was the only church for a thousand or so years. As a side note the reformer Martin Luther who founded the protestant Church railed against Judaism. He even wrote a book called "The Jews And Their Lies". Here it is for sale at amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593640242/sr=8-1/qid=1154903358/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6844650-1962333?ie=UTF8

5 Then they would be fighting for the wrong side.

6 Christians should speak the truth weather its politically correct or not. This will bring many to Christ who are tired of being lied to. Our duty is to help save.

7We refute Judaism. I believe we should stop all funding to Israel.

8 Yes.

9 The Catholic Church's money would pale in comparison to organized jewry. But I think we should speak out against the obvious corruption of the Catholic Church.

10 I think we should fight every anti-christ by speaking the truth.

11 I believe organizing in a grass roots method is good idea if you can. Passing out leaflets and talking to people etc. isnt a bad idea either.

12 I dont support the first two.But I think the minute man project is in the right direction.

13 Paul sometimes wrote seemingly contradictory things this is the reason he talks about the Old Testament as being obsolete and other things that says it is not. Christ said clearly that the Old Testament that he didnt come to destroy the Law but to fufill it. In the same way Romans 13 is clarified by this verse:

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I hope this clears things up for you Larry and It would be next post wouldnt be so hate filled.

larry

08-06-2006, 08:34 PM

Slay the Beast - Below are original questions I asked, your response to them, and my new counters. I do thank you for your responses.

May I ask what church you attend, and what major doctrines they profess? If you do not attend church what teachings you believe?
__________________________________________________ ______________

Question 4 - If they were Catholic, should other Christians have fought and destroyed them?

Response - I really dont understand the hatred for Catholics here. Catholicism was the only church for a thousand or so years. As a side note the reformer Martin Luther who founded the protestant Church railed against Judaism. He even wrote a book called "The Jews And Their Lies". Here it is for sale at amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159...962333?ie=UTF8

Counter - You mistake my stand against their teachings as hatred against the people in that system. I pray they will become Christians. I came out of Catholicism and know many Christians in that false teaching, and the Catholic Church also destroyed all the Christians they could - Have you read "Foxes Book of Martyrs" __________________________________________________ _______________

Question 5 - What if there are Christians in Israel today fighting for their lives with the Army there?

Response - Then they would be fighting for the wrong side.

Counter - Is there then any country in the world a person could defend? On chat one day here, we were talking about praying for our country, and finally this one sweet Christian said, I think I should pray for my country Zimbabwe too.
__________________________________________________ __________________

Question 8 - Do you consider the Jew and Judaism as one and the same?

Response - Yes

Counter - Jesus was a Jew. The apostles were Jews, including Paul whose gospel we're going to be judged by. Should we then denounce their words?
__________________________________________________ __________________

Question 9 - The Catholic Church owns more than anyone, is not Christian, and rules countries - when do we attack?

Response - The Catholic Church's money would pale in comparison to organized jewry. But I think we should speak out against the obvious corruption of the Catholic Church.

Counter - I have never heard that organized Jews had the most money, but that Catholicism did. Please give me figures from any source that is not bigoted against the Jew.

Also you point out corruption of the Catholic Church - What do you think of their teachings?
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Question 12 - Do you consider Arian Nation, KKK, or Minute Men as having truth?

Response - I dont support the first two. But I think the minute man project is in the right direction.

counter - WOW
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Question 13 - Do you consider the Bible as our source as how to treat our authority, country, and leaders God says He put in authority over us according to Romans chapter 13?

Response - Paul sometimes wrote seemingly contradictory things this is the reason he talks about the Old Testament as being obsolete and other things that says it is not. Christ said clearly that the Old Testament that he didnt come to destroy the Law but to fufill it. In the same way Romans 13 is clarified by this verse:

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Counter - Double WOW

Pilgrim4truth

08-07-2006, 03:22 AM

I agree with the WOW Larry, I totaly agree and completely understand the posting now.

Rufus

08-07-2006, 08:31 AM

I agree with the WOW Larry, I totaly agree and completely understand the posting now.

I am afraid I don't understand the posting now. Could either or both of you gentleman explain why it is "wow" to support a group of men and women who defend the sovereignty of this nation by peacably patrolling and reporting activity on our borders? Do you support a North American Union/NAFTA Nation?

Wendell

08-07-2006, 01:03 PM

I am with Rufus.... to include the minutemen, with the kkk, kind of confuses me... From what I have heard of the minutemen, they are for the most part an orderly and and well respected group... except by those that oppose their views, of a nation, secure within its borders, made up of people who honor and respect our laws, with a government that lives up to its responsibility to provide such conditions for its citizens... what exactly am I missing..??

blue...

OneJoe

08-07-2006, 06:15 PM

I agree, the minutemen volunteer their time to help secure America by slowing illegal immigration and drug flow into this country. Much of the drugs today come through the unsecured Mexican border, not to mention the possibility of future terrorists gaining entry into our country this way. Our own government has already established that many terrorists have likely entered the U.S. by coming across the border pretending to be Mexicans looking for work, though never went back and are today walking in the midst of us. Yet, our own government fails to do their duty and secure our borders. The minutemen are a great way to get the governments attention that now is the time to protect our borders. Whether the government will do anything remains to be seen seeing as how we have voluteers working by donations only. IMHO, the cost of what it takes to send one shuttle into space is enough to secure many miles of America's borders.

hearthammer

08-07-2006, 06:16 PM

I have just cast off my pascifist ways and am interested in setting up recruiting and and operating an all Christain Army. We are going to march first on Hollywood, descimating the evil filmmakers who sell smut, violence and ideologies, inconsistent with american values, to willing americans. Next we are going to go to the white house and demand that our votes be recounted according to our desires, and cast out that friend of the Jews Bush, and topple his regime in america. Then, here is the real kicker, We we board ships and planesd bound for the middle east to settle a few scores against the Jews in Zionist Israel. But don't worry we will have lots of help, the muslims in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Hezzbolah, Fatah, Al-Queda and a host other groups organized for just such a purpose. We also have the peace loving UN who wants nothing more than to legislate the Jews out of existence. Of course when we are done with Israel we will have to fight our newfound allies because they don't want us around anymore than the Jews. What are we aiting for WHO"S WITH ME, wait a minute where is Christ, has anyone seen Christ lately. Well I'm fired up let's go He can catch up later....

Can you not see what you are saying? The whole world is aligned against Israel and you are aligning against it as well. How can the world be right in trying to politically make the state of Israel of no affect against its enemies.

I will say this these signs must all come to pass as it is foretold in the Bible (remember that book). The world will align itself against us and the remnant of Israel will be redeemed. Since when has the world ever been right about anything?

Pilgrim4truth

08-07-2006, 07:30 PM

You had me going for a minute heartammer.

good post.

SlayTheBeast

08-07-2006, 09:37 PM

SlayTheBeast

08-07-2006, 10:45 PM

Larry I've decided to answer your main question in another thread considering its a subject in itself.

truthseeker

04-24-2008, 08:09 PM

I found an interesting site called JEWS NOT ZIONISTS (http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/)

Personally, I have no problem with the Zionists desire for Israel.
But I have a huge problem with them hijacking the American Government and stripping us of our Constitutional Rights here in America.
Here is some info from their home page.

Contrary to common perception, Jewish anti-Zionism is not restricted exclusively to the well know Jewish anti-Zionist movements such as Satmar and Neturei Karta.

There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate.

No one has had to create any antagonism between our Torah and Zionism because such antagonism exists by virtue of the essence of Judaism itself, which can never tolerate the heresy of Zionism.

Zionism is wrong from the Torah viewpoint, not because many of its adherents are lax in practice or even anti-religious, but because its fundamental principle conflicts with the Torah.

Unfortunately, due to many undesirable factors, the view of Torah-true Jewry has been concealed from the general public.

We, the staff at www.jewsnotzionists.org are delighted that with the advance in media technology a substantial benefit to researchers, students, and the general public has been made available. We are elated at the advantage which the internet provides for the presentation of and accessibility to a position so widely held yet so deliberately ignored by many a Zionist-inclined medium.

It is our hope that the information presented on this site will be of benefit to all and that we soon merit the peaceful dismantlement of the so-called "State of Israel" and that Jewish-Muslim brotherhood be restored as prior to the arrival of the Zionist scheme on the global scene.

* The Difference Between Zionism and Judaism
* Why Is World Jewry Opposed to the Zionist State?
* Judaism and Zionism - Radio Broadcast