Immortality: A gift from God

[Servant]

We would remain dead, if God did not resurrect us. As human beings, we do not already have immortality! Immortality is a gift from God! "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23, KJV). If we already had immortality, we would not need it as a gift of God. We receive the gift of immortality when we undergo a dramatic transformation at the resurrection. In Romans 2:7 the inspired Paul teaches us that we are to seek for immortality. If we already have an immortal soul what would be the reason in seeking an immortal soul?
Paul writes: "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory’" (1 Corinthians 15:51–54).
Yes, unless we have "put on" immortality through God’s gift at the resurrection, a soul can die! The prophet Ezekiel made this plain when he wrote: "The soul who sins shall die!" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20). The Hebrew word for "soul" is nephesh, which refers to physical life; it is the same word used to describe animal life in Genesis 1:21.
"But that’s in the Old Testament," you may be thinking. "What does the New Testament say about the soul?" Jesus’ teaching was the same. "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul [Greek psuche, "life"] and body in hell [gehenna fire]" (Matthew 10:28). Do you believe your Bible? Do you believe what Jesus said? God is able to destroy both soul and body in "hell"—gehenna fire.
The Bible plainly teaches that souls are mortal—not immortal. But God has a wonderful plan of salvation for all humanity—including you! He wants you to be a part of His family for all eternity. God is love, and He has given you the gift of His Son, Jesus Christ, to pay for your sins. Sin brings the death penalty upon all of us. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
We are not born with an immortal soul, but we do have a human spirit. As the Apostle Paul wrote: "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians 2:11). The patriarch Job stated: "But there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding" (Job 32:8). That spirit, combined with the human brain, gives human beings "mind power" totally unavailable to animals. But the human spirit is not a soul, and does not have a consciousness apart from the human mind. When one becomes a truly converted Christian, the Holy Spirit combines with the spirit in man as one becomes a begotten child of God. Then, the converted Christian grows in the grace and knowledge of Christ (cf. 2 Peter 3:18). By Christ living in us, we become transformed into the very nature and mind of Christ. We have God’s character, love and nature!

[larry]

Are you saying here eternal life is forever, or one becomes immortal with the new birth?

God bless you in Jesus' name - larry

[Servant]

One becomes immortal after God judges us to determine if we will be able to be submissive to His ways. The only time the word immortal is used in the bible it refers to God 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. The practice of teaching immortal soul came from Plato and previously under other pagan teachings. This implementing of pagan practices into Christianity has been satans most powerful way of decieving the WHOLE WOLD (rev 12:9). The "Christians" often wanted to increase attendance so they were will to adopt their a few of their ways into what the Christian community was do to help the pagans feel more comfortable in moving to Christianity. The problem has been FEW HAVE EVER SWITCH BACK. Paul even commented shortly after Jesus assended to heaven, Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel.

[larry]

Your quote: "One becomes immortal after God judges us to determine if we will be able to be submissive to His ways."

Other than references to Plato, what scripture did you get the above quoted information from please?

I'm not sure what your answer was as to what Eternal Life means to you. Maybe another way of asking you: does eternal life mean forever to you?

Yours in Jesus' name - larry

[Servant]

Message Removed

[larry]

Please allow me to dissect the following quotation and ask questions pertaining to each part, though I'm beginning to have a hunch your answers will provoke more questions.

Your quote: In order to be in His kingdom must obey EVERY law He has given us.

1. Who are the "US" you refer to?

a) All that are in the first resurrection -

b) All of the first and second resurrection -

c) Is there anyone that all the law given to man at any time doesn't
apply to -


2. What is EVERY law to you?

a) Ten Commandments -

b) Levitical laws -

c) Romans chapter 13 laws of the land -

d) Rules given Adam and Eve -

e) All ordinances -

f) All instruction

[Servant]

Many are called and few are chosen. Gods people are referred to as the little flock. Lu 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. The chosen ones, the ones who remain faithful unto the end will be saved/ resurrected at the final trumpet. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. So it is the ones who have kept Gods word and done what God has commanded that will be in the first resurrection. I dont know who will be in the first resurrection exactly, that is up to God to discern. The characteristics of these people are listed in Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The second resurrection will be everyone else who was not called, or who was not chosen (a lot of people).
The Law
I'm confident this portion is the part you were talking about that would spark more questions. God gave us the law to better our lives. To live more peaceably with God and others. Everyone would be bountifully blessed now if EVERYONE would follow Gods laws according to Lev 26. I will be using scriptures from the old testament because ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2Tim3:16 According to the gospel of Matthew in Matt 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone but EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Other relavent scriptures pertaining to the law being in effect today include 1 Cor 10:6, Gal 3:15, John 10:35, 1 John 2:33-34 (please look these up after you read the rest).
Many believe Col 2:14 nailed ALL the laws to the cross and gave everyone licence to lead a life of sin, but lets look closer at this verse and some supporting verses. Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. What was blotted out? The handwriting of ordinances. This could not referr to the law of God. The law is not against us and contrary to us. The law is holy the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Rom 7:12). The context of this scripture explains what "ordinances" Paul is referring to: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the [B]commandments and doctrines of men?asceticism, stoicism, meatless Fridays etc. The Greek words for handwriting of ordinances are cheriographtois dogmasin which means the note of guilt from keeping MANS LAWS. The note of guilt is OUR SINS. We have sinned by obeying the laws and customs of man rather than God. What Christ blotted out is OUR SINS. There were 2 things nailed to the cross: 1. the physical body of Christ 2. The note guilt, the record of our sins which Christ paid for Himself. No laws of any kind were nailed to the cross. The sacrificial laws are not necessary due to Christs sacrifice. All the your list from a to f are to be obeyed. Just imagine how well the world would work if all of Gods laws were obeyed. The peace, happiness and joy that would abound is barely comprehendable. The day is soon coming when everyone will know.
I could keep giving you more scripture, but I want to make sure I am addressing what you are curious of. So I'll let you look this over and wait for any additional questions.

[larry]

My question to you was: What is EVERY law to you?

Your quoted answer: All your list from a to f are to be obeyed.

WOW !!! Dear Servant, have you ever considered applying for the position of Pharisee?

My list a - to f below:

a) Ten Commandments -

b) Levitical laws -

c) Romans chapter 13 laws of the land -

d) Rules given Adam and Eve -

e) All ordinances -

f) All instruction

Below is my answer to keeping the law, and as you may have suspected, I have some very adamant conclusions on salvation by grace, versus keeping the law as our means of entering heaven, but I've had fun with this; I believe I've been sucked into Blue Heron's way of responding to threads, though I'm not near as good at it yet, but am working at it. I'll leave you alone now to keep all law 100%.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

a. 2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (Nothing in the law that can give life)

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (The law can only show how bad you are)

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(Gal. 3:23-25) But before faith came, we (Jews) were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (We the Jews are no longer the law - The Gentiles were never under the law!)
(Acts 7:53) Who have received the law by the disposition of angels (these were the prophets), and have not kept it.
(Rom. 2:13) (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (If you're going to be justified by the law, you can't make any mistakes)
(Gal. 3:10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

c. Never break a speed limit, especially on purpose huh?

d. I really did not know this was for me - Just another thing to tempt me I guess

e. Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

f. Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee (I'm going to go through life blind now)

I have noticed one thing I might bring to your attention as to following instruction, just so you don't go to hell since you say all instruction must be followed. I've seen you refer to Philo, but not close in Jesus' name as credited for your writing, though that is how the law works; you're not able to keep them all. and as a schoolmasrer it is trying to show you that.

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


God bless you Servant in Jesus name - larry

[larry]

Dear Servant, I thought I might as well finish these questions with the following:

Have you ever done a study on dispensations, or the way God has dealt with different people with different tests throughout scripture? For instance, I do not believe not eating of the tree of knowledge applied to me: God tested Adam and Eve in the test of innocence, or when they were still innocent, whereas I was born in sin and shapen in inequity.

2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

But 2 Timothy 2:15 also says "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It seems very odd you have posted a link to Catholic teaching on your thread "Immortality - A gift from God" to explain "Immortality". Are there any other FALSE CATHOLIC DOCTRINES you would try to cast upon us? I've entertained enough error of doctrine pertaining to scripture having come out of Catholicism to last me a lifetime.

I do not know where you are coming from, but your doctrine is very flawed and not rightly divided. Thank you for responding to my questions though.

May God bless and show you His truth in Jesus' name - larry

[Servant]

This has been an enjoyable thread. Before I end it there were a few things I wanted you to understand.
The Pharisees as you well know were people who PREACHED THE LAW, but did not keep the law. I am not perfect, but I do my very best.
Before I give you this list I was curious. Did you only read my summary? I had a very detailed explantion of why the law was to be obeyed. Here are the few things I wanted to clarify:
1. We are all sinners. We are to obey Gods law the abolute best we can. If we sin we repent and that sin is forgiven. This is what the law is for. If we did not have the law we would not know sin and sin is THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.
2. The commandments are not a burden. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
3.You in point 'e' mentioned Col 2:14. Did you not read my previous post?
4.Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus came to fulfill. If you had a glass of water that was fill completely to the top, there would be no need to add any water to. Just like the law. Jesus came NOT TO DESTROY but to fulfill. He added the spiritual element. In verse 22 for example we are not only to refrain from murder, we are also to refrain from keeping anger against our brother.
If I remember correctly Philo was the only other one I referred to outside of Gods inspired word. I gave you tons of scripture to back EVERYTHING I shared with you.
Finally Larry are you atonished at the doctrine I am sharing with you? Please remember that when Jesus was here that they were astonished at His doctrine he was preaching. Lu 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine
May God Bless you Larry

[Servant]

To clarify, I could go on forever with the flawed doctrines of the catholic church. I agree 100% with you in this aspect. I do not want to be mislabeled as a supporter of catholism or judaism.

[larry]

Thanks brother Servant for your diligence in your answers, though I am totally grace in my beliefs, and believe in once saved always saved as you must know by now. I did read all your thread and responses, but had a one track mind I suppose in looking for those things pertaing to my thoughts. Thanks for clearing that up about CAtholicism.

God bless you in Jesus' name - larry

[Bombeni]

I just want to add this to the above postings: I am new here and started a thread that says "It isn't that simple" -- that just believing in Jesus and all that He said He was is not enough, however many people do believe that if you believe in Jesus you will be saved. I believed that for many years. This thread is somewhat similar to my thread, concerning the requirement of the laws, that many are called yet few are chosen, etc. However, what about the fact that the criminal on the cross next to Jesus spoke to Him and asked Him to remember him when He came into His Kingdom and Christ told him he would be in paradise with Him that day. This was a criminal who had most likely only come to "know" Christ at that very moment. But yet he was going to follow Him into paradise. I don't know what to think anymore. I am praying daily and speaking with God thru the day. I am asking Him to show me the way to everlasting life. Yet I remain confused as to what "the way" actually is, and what is required.

[Servant]

Here an explanation of the verse Bombeni...
Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Read this verse slowly, word for word. In the Greek language they dont have punctuation. So the commas were added by the translators. So lets move the comma to another spot and see what it does to the meaning. And Jesus said unot him, Verily I say unto the today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This makes the verse much more clear and it now fits with all the other supporting verses. Remember God doesnt contradict Himself and God is not a liar. Titus 1:2

[godslove]

nice try. it actually says truly i say to you, today thou shalt be with me in paridise. there is no the in the greek. also Jesus never talked like that before-try producing another verse where Jesus said i say unto you today.
i percieve that you are either a so called jw or one that has been exposed to thier errors. you should repent and believe in Jesus just as thomas said my Lord and my God.

[Servant]

The comma is still misplaced. Also the one sign Jesus said He would give that He was the Messiah was that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. This would mean that the thief ascended to heaven before Christ. Also NO man had assended to heaven according to God in Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
This means that Abraham, Isaac, Jacab, Moses and King David who will rule under Christ in His kingdom have not ascendend to heaven. These were all righteous men who walked with God.
Try to honestly look at yourself and where you have learned what you have learned. Most of us have learned everything from our parents. It is very difficult to say what our parents have taught us is wrong. Very difficult. What happens is that we learn the traditions of man and try to find an occational scripture that is taken out of context to help support what our parents have taught us.
Be aware that we are in the end times and that fables are being taught. (2Tim 4:4) We are to strive to contend for the faith that was once delivered. Most things are being taught NOT as Jesus taught it. He came preaching the gospel or 'good news' of the coming kingdom of God. I am not trying to attack you on this, I truley want you to understand what is written. Truley understand that satan has decieved the WHOLE WORLD. Nobody is excluded.
May God bless your understanding

[blackdragon108]

Hey Larry can you add more details to your question here, especially the part about "are you saying eternal life is forever" do you have other thoughts on this? I am just curious, what you were thinking, here? I thought eternal life was forever, is there another way to look at this?

take care hope to hear back
BD108

[blackdragon108]

Hey Servant I took the message to the thief differently, that "today" meant that Jesus forgave him and would allow him to be in Heaven, not that he would be going today.

but the other question I have is the Scripture on the Transfiguration, where Jesus was with Elijah and Moses, to be seen by the apostles, what state would you say they were in, to be witnessed by others.

But why get hung up on "timing" our ideas of time is not the same as God's, a 1000 years can be a moment, and if the righteous are "sleeping" for thousands of years until it is time to ascend, what does that matter, when it is but a blink of an eye in eternity

[godslove]

the so called jw's claim that. but Jesus never talked like that. the jw's keep sowing doubt saying yea hath God said. well i will answer you. yes God has said. no it doesn't make since to you. but try this one on for size. luke 20:37,38. now that the dead are raised, even moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of isaac, and the God of Jacob. for he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.---------------------so are you going to say that the Lord is a God of the dead? think for yourself. read the Bible without your jw leader with you. can't you see they want to control your thinking? i pray God that he may open your eyes.

[godslove]

and by the way i have in my hand a parallel New Testament. it has 7 New Testaments in it . the amplified bible, kjv, rheims, new american standard bible, new american bible, new international version, and the new revised standard version, and they all have the comma before today. so who is right? we are talking about alot of bibical scholars here. and the other point i would like to make is don't be so fast to make paradise=heaven. truly you should reconsider your position.

[Anginichi]

Hi Everyone,
Couldn't help jumping in here. First.. just want to say, Servant... I enjoy your posts. I too have come to certain conclusions that the world has been under a veil of deceit regarding the immortality of the soul... a doctrine that isn't biblical at all in my opinion... but one which has paganistic and thus, Satanistic origins. The gift of eternal life is given to us at the resurrection of the saints... and it is only for those who believe in Jesus Christ as their savior... all other people will NOT be given eternal life... but will perish in the second death.
To answer BlackDragon's question about the transfiguration... I believe that the transfiguration is a vision (Tell the VISION to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead. Matt.17:9) of what that last day, when Jesus returns to this earth will be like. Notice how Jesus is transfomed and how He appears to the three disciples on that mount. It is similar to John's description of how He appears on "The Lord's Day" (the last day of this earth as we know it) Moses and Elijah appear with Him on the mount at the transfiguration... why?... doesn't go into much detail there why... but when one looks at Revelation and one sees that the people who will stand with Jesus (his Bride) when He returns are those who keep the commandments of God (Moses was symbolic as the Law) and the faith of Jesus (Elijah and all the prophets have the faith and testimony of Jesus). Moses and Elijah, symbolically represent what the law and prophets are all about... it is all about Jesus Christ... Jesus is a fulfillment of the law and of the prophets...
Since the bible says that we will all be made perfect (be given eternal life) together at the resurrection, whether we are dead in our graves at His return or whether we are still alive on the earth, I assume that the vision that Peter, John and James saw of Moses and Elijah is of that time when "the Son of Man comes in His kingdom" It says it in Matthew 16:27-28, right before the passage about the transfiguration begins in chapter 17.
"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28
Peter, John and James were those men who got to see in a vision, Jesus coming in His kingdom.

[godslove]

luke 20:37,38. now that the dead are raised, even moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of isaac, and the God of Jacob. for he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.---------------------so are you going to say that the Lord is a God of the dead?
i'm still waiting for an answer.
i copied this in case you missed this on this thread. i have things to do today so i will get back to you later.

[Anginichi]

I agree with what Servant said... that God alone is immortal... and God alone has the power over life and death... He will grant those who are "alive" in Christ, even though they might be 'asleep' or dead, eternal life at the resurrection (which is mentioned in so many places throughout the scriptures, Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians is devoted to the resurrection)
1 Cor. 15:51-54, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the DEAD will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this MORTAL must put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming." 1 Cor. 15:22 We shall be given eternal life at His coming!
We have all been appointed to die, because we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God has an appointed time in which those who are in Christ will be given the gift of eternal life.. and it happens at that last Day, when Jesus returns in Glory to this earth and will bring with Him the reward of eternal life to those who are in Him.
I have just reread the verse you quote in Luke 20:37... please note that immediately before the verse you quote it says this in verse 35-36, "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age (what age? the age after the resurrection, which is immortality!), and the resurrection of the DEAD, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they DIE anymore, for they are equal to the angels and the sons of God, being sons of the RESURRECTION." Obviously, the resurrection marks the beginning of eternal life for the believer in Christ. Before that time, death will reign. I am certainly NOT saying that God is a God of the Dead... for those who are in Jesus Christ are alive, they have crossed over from being dead in their sins, but what I am saying is that the gift of eternal life.. or the moment in which they receive eternal life... begins when Jesus actually brings it to them at the resurrection. All who are in Him will be perfected together, just as it says in Hebrews 11:40. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man can come to the father except through Him. We don't make it there on our own.

[Servant]

Correct, God is not the God of the dead because they are ASLEEP. The cannot be governed, corrected, grow in grace and knowlegde. They are dead. As I stated before, concerning the comma, the greek language does not include punctuation. The translators did the best they knew putting the comma in the place make it sound what the world belives. 2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. The are ample other scriptures supporting that Gods kingdom will be set up on this earth. We will inherit the earth, not heaven. This is not a popular view. This doctorine is the same doctrine Christ preached when He was here, preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom of God. Not the gospel of us being taken to heaven to play on harps for all eternity.
Just to clarify I am not a Jew. Gal3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[godslove]

i was not calling you a jew. i was saying that your teaching come really close to the so called Jehovah’s Witnesseses. when i made my statement that i percieved that you were one and you didn't reply i figured you were indeed one of them. i also assumed you knew what a jw was. i don't like to use God's name unless i really have to. but what is this soul sleep. you are saying it is death. now soul sleep=death. i just want to make sure our terms are the same. i suspect that the jew remark you made was just to get me off the subject. so if you are one of those Jehovah’s. witnesses, did you have your leaders answer that question? or did you have to send it all the way to the watchtower society? but let me know what you mean by soul sleep. is it death or not? you are term switching on me to prevent me from presenting a reasonable response.

[godslove]

answer me one question honestly first then Lord willing i will reply to this.
are you a Jehovah’s. witnesses?

[Anginichi]

godslove,
If you are asking me if I am a Jehovah's Witness?... Absolutely not! I do not label myself or affiliate myself with ANY denomination out there in the world. I just look at the scriptures and come to the conclusions I have based solely on them. Hope that helps you.

[godslove]

You wrote:
godslove,
If you are asking me if I am a Jehovah's Witness?... Absolutely not! I do not label myself or affiliate myself with ANY denomination out there in the world. I just look at the scriptures and come to the conclusions I have based solely on them. Hope that helps you.

My answer:
That seems like a honest answer.

You wrote:
Hi Everyone,
Couldn't help jumping in here. First.. just want to say, Servant... I enjoy your posts. I too have come to certain conclusions that the world has been under a veil of deceit regarding the immortality of the soul... a doctrine that isn't biblical at all in my opinion... but one which has paganistic and thus, Satanistic origins.

Answer:
1 john 5:11,12,13. and this is the record that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hat not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
2 cor 5:6.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.
As far as satanistic and paganistic origins I will need a reference to where you got this. I could not find it.

You wrote:
The gift of eternal life is given to us at the resurrection of the saints... and it is only for those who believe in Jesus Christ as their savior... all other people will NOT be given eternal life... but will perish in the second death.

Answer:
Matt. 25:46. and these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Rev. 14:11. and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image.
Luke 16:23. and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments.
Luke 16:28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
(notice he did not call it a place of death he called it a place of torment)

You wrote.
To answer BlackDragon's question about the transfiguration... I believe that the transfiguration is a vision (Tell the VISION to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead. Matt.17:9) of what that last day, when Jesus returns to this earth will be like. Notice how Jesus is transfomed and how He appears to the three disciples on that mount. It is similar to John's description of how He appears on "The Lord's Day" (the last day of this earth as we know it) Moses and Elijah appear with Him on the mount at the transfiguration... why?... doesn't go into much detail there why... but when one looks at Revelation and one sees that the people who will stand with Jesus (his Bride) when He returns are those who keep the commandments of God (Moses was symbolic as the Law) and the faith of Jesus (Elijah and all the prophets have the faith and testimony of Jesus). Moses and Elijah, symbolically represent what the law and prophets are all about... it is all about Jesus Christ... Jesus is a fulfillment of the law and of the prophets...
Since the bible says that we will all be made perfect (be given eternal life) together at the resurrection, whether we are dead in our graves at His return or whether we are still alive on the earth, I assume that the vision that Peter, John and James saw of Moses and Elijah is of that time when "the Son of Man comes in His kingdom" It says it in Matthew 16:27-28, right before the passage about the transfiguration begins in chapter 17.
"For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28
Peter, John and James were those men who got to see in a vision, Jesus coming in His kingdom.

Answer:
Vision- Strongs 3705. horama, something gazed at.
Vision- new American college dictionary- 1,a, the faculty of sight; eyesight; poor vision b. something that is or has been seen. 2. unusual competence in discernment or perception; intelligent forsight. 3. the manner in which one sees or conceives of something. 4. a mental image produced by the imagination. 5. the mystical espierance of seeing as if with the eyes the supernatural or a supernatural being. 6. a person or thing of extraordinary beauty. Etc.

You wrote:
I agree with what Servant said... that God alone is immortal... and God alone has the power over life and death... He will grant those who are "alive" in Christ, even though they might be 'asleep' or dead, eternal life at the resurrection (which is mentioned in so many places throughout the scriptures, Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians is devoted to the resurrection)
1 Cor. 15:51-54, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the DEAD will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this MORTAL must put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Answer:
1 thess. 4:14. for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

You wrote:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming." 1 Cor. 15:22 We shall be given eternal life at His coming!
We have all been appointed to die, because we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God has an appointed time in which those who are in Christ will be given the gift of eternal life.. and it happens at that last Day, when Jesus returns in Glory to this earth and will bring with Him the reward of eternal life to those who are in Him.
I have just reread the verse you quote in Luke 20:37... please note that immediately before the verse you quote it says this in verse 35-36, "But those who are counted worthy to attain that age (what age? the age after the resurrection, which is immortality!), and the resurrection of the DEAD, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they DIE anymore, for they are equal to the angels and the sons of God, being sons of the RESURRECTION." Obviously, the resurrection marks the beginning of eternal life for the believer in Christ. Before that time, death will reign. I am certainly NOT saying that God is a God of the Dead... for those who are in Jesus Christ are alive, they have crossed over from being dead in their sins, but what I am saying is that the gift of eternal life.. or the moment in which they receive eternal life... begins when Jesus actually brings it to them at the resurrection. All who are in Him will be perfected together, just as it says in Hebrews 11:40. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man can come to the father except through Him. We don't make it there on our own.

answer
No -------it’s the point in that the dead are raised. He’s claiming that those people are still alive, otherwise he would be a God of the dead. Think what you are saying. Reread it , now that the dead are raised-----for he is not a God of the dead., but of the living---
If he is called the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. ----
If they are dead He is a God of the dead. If they are alive He is a God of the living. I don’t know how to make that any plainer to you. I pray God that he will open your eyes.

[Anginichi]

I think that God HAS opened my eyes! I used to believe as you and others, based merely on what I was "fed" by pastors and churches, but after reading the Bible in its entirety, I can no longer blindly believe that way, for I believe the Bible tells us something entirely different than what the "mainstream churches" have been teaching regarding this subject. We will go round and round on this subject... so I don't think it is worth debating further... We both use the same scriptures... I come to different conclusions than you have, based on those same scriptures.

[godslove]

i am not preaching any religion, i was not fed anything, when i was young i was into praticing my inner powers, and i was very good at it. i held edgar cacey teachings above everything. then i started studying the scriptures to increase my own power. and eventually held it above everything. the doctrine you are preaching is the one that the so called j. witnesses use to shake the faith of many. you can believe anything that you want to. and by itself it is not a big deal to me. but what it does to others is the problem. i answered you statments very well. if you don't see that you have some kind of problem.could it be that you are holding your own personal beliefs above the Bible. but i did pray for you. but i still wonder about your motives. you said our teaching have paganistic and Satanistic origins .---------------------------- but thats ok because you said it.-------------
. have you indeed checked out every denomination? or are you just using it as a cop out? have you been exposed to the watchtower teachings. it does kind of match what you are saying. i know you said that you were not one of them but i believe that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it is probably a duck. and that kind of duck is not really known for being honest.

[Anginichi]

have you indeed checked out every denomination? or are you just using it as a cop out? have you been exposed to the watchtower teachings. it does kind of match what you are saying. i know you said that you were not one of them but i believe that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it is probably a duck. and that kind of duck is not really known for being honest.
As a matter of fact... I have looked into numerous denominations, so I do know what many, including the Jehovah's Witnesses teach... and I will say with all honesty and once again, that I do NOT adhere to any denomination. My motives for being in this room and stating my opinions based on my reading of the scriptures is the same as yours... to state my opinion, or at least I am assuming those are your motives as well. But I will not personally attack you and tell you you are wrong and brainwashed and call you something based on a few words that I have read from you. The doctrine that I am preaching???? I am only stating that I agree that God alone is immortal... where did I get that from? Certainly not from the JW's, although they might agree with it.. but from the Bible. The doctrine that Jesus will resurrect our mortal bodies and change them into immortal ones... again... not from the JW's... but directly from the Bible... (I already gave the verse on that).
As far as the paganistic origin of the immortality of the soul... it goes back to the garden of Eden, when Satan deceived and tricked Eve by saying "You shall surely not die!" The whole doctrine of the soul living on after death began with that action of disobedience in the garden, and if you check into most religions of the world, you will find that as the prevailing theme... that there is some form of afterlife and that a person can become like God, thereby negating the need for God and replacing Him with their own way. Now God said... the soul that sinneth shall die. God said... if Adam and Eve partook of that fruit from the tree (you know which one), they shall surely die!... Now whom did Eve ultimately believe? By partaking that fruit, she decided to turn her back on God's word and rather listened to Satan and his lies. The world has been deceived ever since. It only takes looking at all the major religions of the world to see how deceptive he has been. That is why I say that to believe that the soul is immortal is paganistic and satanistic. Christ alone gives us the way out of the demise that we have created for ourselves and a way back to the Father. It is through believing in Him and waiting on Him to return for us, that we are saved and will be granted eternal life. Jesus will come again and His reward (eternal life) will be with Him.

[godslove]

obviously you have your mind made up, but anyway if i have been harsh as you are claiming it would have been because you claimed that all christian denominations have thier origins in satan on thier teachings about the afterlife. so i preach the gospel and where does that put me? if you don't want to hear my reply do not reply back to me. but expect me to answer anything you write that i see that goes against the bible. as far as i know i have that right......i will not comment on your last argument in your last post unless you reply back to me again.