Are all forgiven...?????

[blueheron32]

King Saul committed suicide when he fell on his sword. Judas Iscariot committed suicide when he hung himself. Sure they were forgiven. All of us are. They just didn't know that they were forgiven, so they went to hell without hope. The forgiveness which has been offered must be appropriated.

The above is a quote from "God is Holy"...in a different thread...rather than clutter up that thread with a different topic...I decided to move it here..:-)

It is such an interesting and provocative quote, I just couldnt resist..sooooo....

Saul and Judas Iscariot were both forgiven and went to hell any way...????
We are all forgiven??? For all of our sins? And it is still possible to go to hell, even though we are forgiven?

If a person commits a crime and his sentence is commuted, if nobody tells him he is no longer under the penalty of his crime, can the authorities that accused him, and convicted him and sentenced him, and then commuted that sentence still execute him for his crime? Wouldnt they themselves be guilty of murder?

How is it that God could forgive someone, and then still throw them into hell for sins that he himself paid for and forgave? If God knew the sin was paid for, How could he still punish someone for it??? wow

Ummm...could someone teach me, from the Bible, How a person "appropriates" forgiveness?

Im very confused,...please help...

blueheron32

[Mikem]

Great question. Well, I am no Biblical teacher, but here are my thoughts:

Unrepentance is a perpetual sin. It is not an event that comes and goes. It is a state of being, a state of mind. And that state of mind is one of unbelief in God. One may say he believes in God, but to choose not to repent demonstrates ones heart does not fear or respect God. Even worse is one who believes in God but remains unrepentant. This is a direct challenge to the authority of God. So while God forgives all, because God is Holy and forgiveness is Holy, I don't think God withholds man from a choice of self conviction and self punishment.

To use your analagy, the jailer can commute the sentence, and release the man, but the convicted can go out, and into a self constructed prison.

[Daytimeson23]

Huh?

[JoWilli]

bh,

Where in the forum here did that quote first appear?

JoWilli.

[blueheron32]

Mikem...

Man is born a sinner...it is his natural condition. It is not a condition that comes and goes...it is what he is as a result of being born into the human race. The statement was, that his sins are forgiven him and he is still sent to hell...whether the sin was adultry, lying, rebelling against God, unbelief, unrepentance or whatever, if his sins are forgiven him....how can he be sent to hell. unbelief and unrepentance are just a couple of his many sins...

And you have misused my analogy...people dont send themselves to jail..and they dont send themselves to hell...the authorities send a person to jail after a trial and conviction and a sentence is handed down....In the same way it is God who sends people to hell because of mans sin... if a man is sentenced for a crime he has commited he must serve that sentence...the only way around that is if a qualified person pardons him...ie. the governor may grant a pardon, and then the man is free from the sentence imposed...In the same way...God is the only one who can grant a pardon for the sentence he has imposed. If it is true that God has granted a pardon, ie, forgiven the "crime" sins, of someone...how can that same God then turn around and throw someone into hell for the very crime he has forgiven him of..??????????????

blueheron32

[blueheron32]

jowilli.

it is in the thread..."Does God forgive a person of self murder" near the bottom by "God is Holy"

blueheron32

[Dee]

Correct me if I am wrong, (and I know you will) But God does not send anyone to hell, we choose to go by not choosing to believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We well know there are only those two choices.

[blueheron32]

Correct me if I am wrong, (and I know you will) But God does not send anyone to hell, we choose to go by not choosing to believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior. We well know there are only those two choices.

Dee..

Every unsaved person is condemned to hell reguardless of whether or not they "choose".

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Many have perished in unbelief, having never even heard of the Son of God. Never having heard the name of Jesus. No Choice, as you say, having ever been extended to them. And as that verse says...anyone who believes not...is condemned already...because they are in unbelief....

That doesnt mean they cant become saved..but salvation is not based on their choice either....it is based on a sovreign act of Gods grace, mercifully applied by God himself to a condemned sinner.

blueheron32

[SemperReformanda]

heya dee :)
correction! :P. .just playin,
but for reals i would like to slip into this convo real quick and ask you a couple questions?
Check out some of these scriptures real quick :)

Mt. 25:41
"Then [the king] will say to those on his left,'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'"

~ who is the king sending the cursed away and to where?

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,

~who, if not God, does the throwing?

Romans 12:19
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave itto the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

~What is the vengence talked about and who is the one inflicting it?

2 Thess. 1:7-9
The Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8) in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.

~Does this expand on the romans text perhaps?

Just some food for thought.. hit me back with your thoughts :)
Your bro,
Nathan