A Question About Christmas

[skittles]

hay everyone i have a question. how do you feel when ppl say Xmas insted of Christmas????? i know it bugs me. So tell me what you guys think please
lots of love skittles :h

[streetsofgold]

yarhh it bugs me too...they're crossing out Christ's name... and does it also bug you when they don't capitalize Christmas?

[skittles]

yarhh it bugs me too...they're crossing out Christ's name... and does it also bug you when they don't capitalize Christmas?
yes that bugs me very much and i'm glad i'm not alone in this :-)

[m.o.m.]

Hello, X is the symbo for the Greek letter Chi which was used often in the early church to represent Christ. Thought you might want to know how that came about.
However, in this day of the secularization of Christmas in our society, I too think we should keep Christ in Christmas (in a lot more ways than just in the words we use). God bless!!!

[heaven]

Hey Sweets! Yes it does bug me very much so when people say X-mas or happy holidays instead of merry Christmas. I think society is failing to realize the true meaning of Christmas and would rather make it a holiday thing rather than the real thing. Keep the faith and God bless!

heaven:p



hay everyone i have a question. how do you feel when ppl say Xmas insted of Christmas????? i know it bugs me. So tell me what you guys think please
lots of love skittles :h

[Tennessee Elijah]

Several years ago when I was an AOL member, I upset Christian haters with my "Merry CHRISTmas" campaign on message boards. In this year of 2005, since there is so much being done to discount the idea of "Christ" in the marketplace where Christians spend money for gifts, my reaction has been to spend less -- and to remove all Santa Claus ornaments from our tree. We are planning to focus on "Jesus" only!

[skittles]

Hello, X is the symbo for the Greek letter Chi which was used often in the early church to represent Christ. Thought you might want to know how that came about.
However, in this day of the secularization of Christmas in our society, I too think we should keep Christ in Christmas (in a lot more ways than just in the words we use). God bless!!!
Thank you for telling me that i didn't know that.but most ppl don't know that and it was really buging my dad. but again thankyou for telling me

[skittles]

Hey Sweets! Yes it does bug me very much so when people say X-mas or happy holidays instead of merry Christmas. I think society is failing to realize the true meaning of Christmas and would rather make it a holiday thing rather than the real thing. Keep the faith and God bless!

heaven:p hay sissy yes now they are useing happy holidays insted of Christmas the target here in tx is selling holiday trees isn't that so stupid
well ty 4 replying lots of love sissy:p

[skittles]

Several years ago when I was an AOL member, I upset Christian haters with my "Merry CHRISTmas" campaign on message boards. In this year of 2005, since there is so much being done to discount the idea of "Christ" in the marketplace where Christians spend money for gifts, my reaction has been to spend less -- and to remove all Santa Claus ornaments from our tree. We are planning to focus on "Jesus" only! Yes ppl are trying to take Christ out of CHRISTmas the Target in TX is not selling CHRISTmas trees they are selling holiday trees that is one of the most stupid things i hve ever herd. and i'm glad that someone is in this with me ty.:-)

[romans 8:17]

well I don't see anything wrongf with it cuz it means christ in greek or something its just faster to type

[Angel]

Hey Skittles - good point. I myself absolutely hate xmas - take Christ out of Christmas and what do you have - nothing of any significance. Why celebrate at all? If people don't know Christ how would they know that the x is a symbol representing Him in Greek or whatever. Leave the Christ in Christmas - at least people might think about what it really means if they see the word Christ. I never buy cards unless they have Merry Christmas on them. We must be the only house in the street without any santas or elves and our neighbour keeps asking when are you going to put up some lights! The only important light I want in my life is Jesus Christ!!
I tell my neighbour what Christmas means to me and although it is lovely for the children to see santa and all the other things associated with him at Christmas time let's never forget who Christ was and is and that He is as real today as He was back then.KEEP THE CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS I SAY!!!!!!

Angel

[cyclemad]

I was thinking about the term 'Christmas' yesterday. From my own deductions it comes from the 'mass' held on the day of Jesus birth (supposed birth) by the Catholic church. I guess it is just a name for a birthday party. Personally, when people say Xmas, I think they are making it what it is to them. They are just being honest.
I have friends that querie the whole christmas tree, giving presents, Santa Clause ect. I would agree with them that the focus is no longer on Christ and what he has done for us.
Having said that, Chirstmas is a wonderful time to spend with family, be generous and enjoy time with friends. Perhaps we would do better celebrating the Jewish festivals, which point towards Christ in every aspect, far more than our Christmas. Just a thought.

I think we should extend grace to others, keep the focus as it should be ourselves, and where ever we find opportunity, bring the gospel as it really is.

[lilian]

christmas isnt about Jesus anymore in this world
its about santa claus..n presents n patries n no skol
its really sad! its up ta us ta change tht
throu prayer and throu TEACHIN
Stay blessed n bless others
merry christmas!

[skittles]

christmas isnt about Jesus anymore in this world
its about santa claus..n presents n patries n no skol
its really sad! its up ta us ta change tht
throu prayer and throu TEACHIN
Stay blessed n bless others
merry christmas! Yes i agree with you we need to do more thinking about God and less about presants my family dose the whole santa thing 4 my lil sis but it is ok cuz we don't make santa and presants the hole deal
thank you 4 your input :af

[skittles]

well i see your point but most ppl don't know that and thay are taking christ out of CHRISTmas

[skittles]

i don't see anythink wrong with puting up lights and maybe a nativity. yes but that is my point most ppl don't know about the x meaning Christ and it really bugs my so ty for your reply

[Ken]

Hi Skittles,

What does putting up lights and the so called nativity have to do with the biblical story of Jesus? Did I miss the scriptures where the wise men were there at his birth? Maybe you can point them out for me?

[Ken]

Hi Tennessee,

When the USA was founded as a Christian Nation Catholic holidays like this one that they stole from the pagans to bring them into their church were banned, and you could be fined it caught observing them. If you were celebrating Christmas then, they would think you were not Christian. Now not only has that turned around to where you’re not considered Christian if you don’t take part in this unchristian holiday, but people like you go so far as to call people Christ Haters that do not see Christ in the Mass.

I’m glad to hear that you’re atleast removing the Santa Claus ornaments from your pagan tree. It’s sad to see people lying to their children and telling them that this mystical figure in a red suite knows all things and will reward them for doing good. I wonder what Jesus thinks about people calling themselves Christians that have gone the way of the pagans in his name?

[blueheron32]

for those of you who have ever heard of Charles Hadden Spurgeon, and for those of you who havent, you should get to know him....I ran across his comments on christmas....that might be of interest in this thread...

We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas. First, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be sung in Latin or in English. Secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Savior's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. ... It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the Church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western Church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. ... Probably the fact is that the "holy" days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Savior was born, it is the 25th of December. ... Regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of His dear Son.

[Angel]

Blue - party pooper!! :m I want to celebrate His birthday whenever it was. :-D Praise God for His birth! Amen :-)

Angel :af

[cyclemad]

Rock on Blueheron! :tu

I have heard this before, and I think the point that Spurgeon makes is valid. Like I said in my other reply, probably the best way to celebrate Jesus would be to celebrate the Jewish festivals in the same way that the Jews for Jesus or Messianic Jews do. Taking the festivals which point to Jesus, and having them with Jesus as the revelation.

I guess that would be difficult, as it is a changing of the Western world's 'Christian' CULTURE.
We are all stuck in our own cultures and this is why we hang onto elements of life that are not really that important. The thing that is important is the WORD of God, the acting, working POWER of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the call to take the gospel to all nations of the earth, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all Jesus has commanded us to do.

In fact, the only three 'commands' that Jesus gave, were to be baptised, break bread in rememberance of Him (communion) and the great commission. I don't see anything about Christmas or celebrating Jesus' birthday.

If we are going to get worked up, let's get worked up about the things that really matter. Jesus didn't turn over tables in the temple courts for just any old reason.

[Potters House]

Hello Skittles, I believe the real question is, should Christians be celebrating this Pagan holiday at all?
You can call it what ever you like, it still is what it is. Pagan rituals. That is the root of the holiday. And sugar coating it with Jesus birthday ( which it isn't) is like dipping a horse apple in chocolate and calling it a dessert. It may look like something good, but underneath and all the way thru to the core, its appalling. Christians today are so used to being fed this abomination, they apparently are used to the taste. I find it amusing some folks are offended at using the term Xmas, yet have no trouble swallowing the entire subject. Reminds me of the gnat and camel Jesus spoke about.

[Manoluv1957]

I don't care for Christmas since I have studied church history on the subject, I don't think Christ cares for it either.

[Angel]

Yes Manoluv1957 I think you are right there. Christ probably does not like the commercialism of Christmas I know I hate all that - it's nearly all about money and gifts, hustle and bustle, everyone in a hurry, but if it reminds just 1 person who Christ really is then I think maybe all is not lost.:)

Angel :af

[germanJoy]

If the devil had meant Christmas for evil (wordly matters, abominations, unbiblical celebrations, etc.), isn't it high time for the children of God to mean it for good? Instead of niggling on the damages the festivals brought to the christian faith in the world, let us give the devil a blow on the face by making use of the occassion in bringing more souls into the kingdoom of Christ. I think there is no other best season to minister thesalvation of Christ to the lost souls than during Christmas time, a time when everyone's hearing antenna is focused on the child in the manger. So "COMMISSIONERS" of Christ, get on your feet and glorify our SAVIOUR on this season! God bless us all.

[Manoluv1957]

Better do it in a hurry, the 'politically correct' nuts are pushing for, (and will succeed) in removing Christ from Christmas altogether, the Nativity for one, now they want no more 'Christmas Tree', but a 'Holiday Tree'...when a handful of atheists begin to rule the majority, the country is no longer a democracy.

[dill987]

no one ever said that only on my friends window.But yeah it is bugs me alittle.

[Paul 2006]

hay everyone i have a question. how do you feel when ppl say Xmas insted of Christmas????? i know it bugs me. So tell me what you guys think please
lots of love skittles :h
It's nothing short of full scale spirtual warfare! Do not put up with this! email the Walmarts, and Targets, and Sears of the world, tell them you won't put up with this. PC herd = mind control. It's CHRISTmas, NOT holiday, NOT kwanza, NOT hannuka.....CHRISTMAS. period.

[katiedee]

skittles, I agree I do not like when then use the word xmas. Also holiday trees, or party, etc. It is CHRIST in Christmas that should stand out to all. I went to the post office today for stamps, Christmas ones. They had northpole and santa ones, The other has a picture of Mary and Jesus I didn't have to think twice of which stamp I wanted. Be Blessed and have a wonderful Jesus filled day on Christmas.

[prayz]

Well I hate when people take Christ out of Christmas too, if people would allow Christ back into this world there would not be half the junk going on now, God is not happy with this world today but we stand back and allow it to happen instead of standing up for what we believe. It's time we as Christians put Christ back in this world and reach out to those that don't know him. It took one person to get prayer out of school, and it took one person to get God taken from public places, imagine what we could all do if we pulled together.

[imsavedru]

Amen Prayz, I agree with you. The church seems to be pulling apart instead of together. The so-called Christians seem to be too busy today to focus on His will and ways. I've heard that many of the stores are saying that they will go back to saying Merry Christmas. I don't care what day Jesus was actually born on, I tend to believe it was the end of September, but I also don't see anything wrong with celebrating His birth.

IHL, Lynn-imSavedru?

[mistral]

well i think it's okay to use if taking shorthand or even netting, however when one does indeed have the time then that is the time the fullness of the word MUST be used

[Ken]

The problem is when the catholic church wanted to convert the pagans they just renamed there holidays. What we see is the roots of the holiday. How can something good come from something evil? The foundation of the holiday is pagan. The Tree is Pagan. Most that observe the holiday teach their children that the pagan figure santa rewards them for doing good. Most people go in debt this time of year to make the merchants rich. We have to listen to pagan songs like Deck The Halls this time of year. The suicide rate goes up this time of year from people that become overwhelmed. I wonder what Jesus sees good about Christmas? The Christian founding fathers of the USA had it right when they banned the catholic churches pagan holidays. It’s sad the money changers have so much control over what Christians do and even believe.

[Robert]

I hope some of you may find this of interest at this time of year: I’m sorry that it is so long and must be posted in two parts, but in order to understand it completely I feel you must read it in it’s entirety

Biography.
Dr. E.W. Bullinger 1837 - 1913., Born in Canterbury, England, He was a Vicar of the Church of England, Biblical scholar, and dispensationalist theologian. educated at King's College, London, and gained recognition in the field of Biblical languages.
He was a Greek and Hebrew scholar, the Archbishop of Canterbury awarded him the honorary Lambeth Doctor of Divinity degree, in 1881 through recommendation of the Queen of England.
Bullinger continues to be recognized as the greatest Bible scholar of the early twentieth century, and primary editor of The Companion Bible.
Unsurpassed even today his easy to read books and essays are critically acclaimed. Bullinger's comprehensive and detailed study of figures of speech in the Bible has never been superseded. His Bible commentaries, Greek lexicon, textual notes, and numerous expositional studies continue to inform students of the Scriptures. whose voice would be heard around the world through the printed page..

Appendixes To The Companion Bible
This Is Appendix 179 From The Companion Bible.
I. Parallel Datings of the Times of Our Lord.
II. Dates of "The Begetting" and The Nativity.
III. "The Course of Abia".
A.M. = Anno Mundi; that is to say, in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; that is to say, in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditoe; that is to say; the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.

III.
"THE COURSE OF ABIA" (Luke 1:5).
This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (1 Chronicles 24:10), and occurred, as did the others, twice in the year.
The "Courses" were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5). This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Leviticus 23:39).
The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1 Chronicles 24:10).
Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:
The first 9 ministration was from 12-18 Chisleu = December 6-12.
The second ministration was from 12-18 Sivan = June 13-19.
The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12-18 SIVAN (June 13-19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23), which was in a city10 in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).
The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th.
The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about 23rd of SIVAN 11 - which would correspond to June 23-24 of that year. The fact of the conception and its date would necessarily be known at the time and afterwards, and hence the 23rd SIVAN would henceforth be associated with the conception of John Baptist as the 1st TEBETH would be with that of our Lord.
But the same influences that speedily obscured and presently obliterated the real dates of our Lord's "Begetting" and Birth, were also at work with regard to those of the Forerunner, and with the same results. As soon as the true Birth day of Christ had been shifted from its proper date, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri (September 29), and a Festival Day from the Pagan Calendars substituted for it (videlicet: December 25), then everything else had to be altered too.
Hence "Lady Day" in association with March 25 (new style) became necessarily connected with the Annunciation. And June 24 made its appearance, as it still is in our Calendar, as the date of "the Nativity of John the Baptist", instead of, as it really is, the date of his miraculous conception.
The Four "Quarter Days" may therefore be set forth thus: first in the chronological order of the events with which they are associated, videlicet:
The conception of John Baptist on or about 23rd SIVAN = June 24 in the year 5 B.C.
The Gennesis (Begetting) of our Lord on or about 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
The birth of John Baptist on or about 4th-7th NISAN = March 25-28 in the year 4 B.C.
The birth of our Lord on or about 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.

or, placing the two sets together naturally:-
{The conception of John 23rd SIVAN = June 23-24 in the year 5 B.C.
{The birth of John 7th NISAN = March 28-29 in the year 4 B.C.
{The Miraculous "Begetting" 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
{The NATIVITY 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.


NOTES
9 Reckoning of course from Ethanim or Tisri - the First month of the civil year. The sacred year was six month later, and began on 1st Nisan.
10 The "city" is not named (possibly Juttah, some 30 miles to the south of Jerusalem).
11 The conception of John Baptist was, in view of Luke 1:7, as miraculous as that of Isaac; but it is not necessary to insist upon the complete period of forty sevens in the case of Elizabeth. Therefore the birth of the Forerunner may have been three or four days short of the full two hundred and eighty days, - as indicated in the above table.

I.
PARALLEL DATINGS OF THE TIMES OF OUR LORD.
A.M. = Anno Mundi; that is to say, in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; that is to say, in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditoe; that is to say; the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.
 ……..Sorry ! couldn’t get this to print out properly.
II.
DATES OF "THE BEGETTING" (he gennesis, Matthew 1:18,20 (see Revised Version marg.). John 1:14-) OF OUR LORD AND HIS BIRTH. (Luke 2:7. John 1:-14.)
 ……..Or this one !!
It thus appears without the shadow of a doubt that the day assigned to the Birth of the Lord, videlicet*: December 25, was the day on which He was "begotten of the Holy Ghost", that is to say, by pneuma hagion = divine power (Matthew 1:18, 20 marg.), and His birth took place on the 15th of Ethanim, September 29, in the year following, thus making beautifully clear the meaning of John 1:14,"The Word became flesh" (Matthew 1:18,20) on 1st Tebeth or December 25 (5 B.C.), "and tabernacled (Greek eskenosen) with us", on 15th of Ethanim or September 29 (4 B.C.). The 15th of Ethanim (or Tisri) was the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Circumcision therefore took place on the eighth day of the Feast = 22nd Ethanim = October 6-7 (Leviticus 23:33-43). So that these two momentous events fall into their proper place and order, and the real reason is made clear why the 25th of December is associated with our Lord, and was set apart by the Apostolic Church to commemorate the stupendous event of the "Word becoming flesh" - and not, as we have for so long been led to suppose, the commemoration of a pagan festival.

Robert.

[Robert]

Part two:

An overwhelmingly strong argument in favor of the correctness of this view lies in the fact that the date of "the Festival of Michael and All Angels" has been from very early times the 29th day of September, on Gentile (Western) reckoning.
But "the Church" even then had lost sight of the reason why this date rather than any other in the Calendar should be so indissolubly associated with the great Angelic Festival.
The following expresses the almost universal knowledge or rather want of knowledge of "Christendom" on the subject: "We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith Dictionary of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), volume ii, page 1177 (3) ).
A reference, however, to the Table and statements above, make the "original special idea" why the Festival of "Michael and All Angels" is held on September 29 abundantly clear. Our Lord was born on that day, the first day of the "Feast of Tabernacle" (Leviticus 23:39). This was on the fifteenth day of the seventh Jewish month called Tisri, or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5), corresponding to our September 29 (of the year 4 B.C.).
The "Begetting" (gennesis) Day of the Lord was announced by the Angel Gabriel. See notes on Daniel 8:16, and Luke 1:19.
The "Birth" Day, by "(the) Angel of the Lord", unnamed in either Matthew and Luke.
That this Angelic Being was "Michael the Archangel" (of Jude 9), and "Mika'el hassar haggadol-"Michael the Great Prince"-of Daniel 12:1, seems clear for the following reason: If, "when again (yet future) He bringeth the First-begotten into the world, He saith, Let all the Angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:6; quoting Psalm 97:6)-then this must include the great Archangel Michael himself. By parity of reasoning, on the First "bringing" into the world of the only begotten Son, the Archangel must have been present. And the tremendous announcement to the shepherds, that the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6) was on earth in the person of the Babe of Bethlehem, must therefore have been made by the same head of the heavenly host (Luke 2:9-14). In mundane affairs, announcement of supremest importance (of Kings, etc.) are invariably conveyed through the most exalted personage in the realm. The point need not be laboured.
The fact of the Birth of our Lord having been revealed to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael on the 15th of Tisri (or Ethtanim), corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C.-the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles-must have been known to believers in the Apostolic Age. But "the mystery of iniquity" which was "already working" in Paul's day (2 Thessalonians 2:7) quickly enshrouded this and the other great fact of the Jewish month Tebeth (corresponding to December 25, 5 B.C.)-as well as other connected with His sojourn on earth,4-in a rising mist of obscurity in which they have ever since been lost.
The earliest allusion to December 25 (modern reckoning) as the date for the Nativity is found in the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria, about the beginning of the third century A.D. (See note 3).5
That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of our Lord is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates 6), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of the winter solstice.7 By the time of the early part of the fourth century A.D., the real reason for observing Christmas as the date for the miraculous "begetting" of Matthew 1:18 and "the Word becoming flesh" of John 1:14 had been lost sight of. The policy of Constantine, and his Edict of Milan, by establishing universal freedom of religion furthered this. When many of the followers of the old pagan systems-the vast majority of the empire, it must be remembered- adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religious". Thus "Chirstmas Day," the birthday of the Egyptian Horus (Osiris), became gradually substituted for the real Natalis Domini of our blessed Saviour, videlicet: September 29,or Michaelmas Day.
If, however, we realize that the centre of gravity, so to speak, of what we call the Incarnation is the Incarnation itself- the wondrous fact of the Divine "begetting", when "the Word became flesh" (see Matthew 1:18 and John 1:14) - and that this is to be associated with December 25 instead of March - as for 1,600 years Christendom has been led to believe - then "Christmas" will be seen in quite another light, and many who have hitherto been troubled with scruples concerning the day being, as they have been taught, the anniversary of a Pagan festival, will be enabled to worship on that Day without alloy of doubt, as the time when the stupendous miracle which is the foundation stone of the Christian faith, came to pass.
The "Annunciation" by the Angel Gabriel marked the gennesis of Matthew 1:18, and the first words of John 1:14.
The announcement to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael marked the Birth of our Lord. John 1:14 is read as though "the Word became flesh (Revised Version), and dwelt among us", were one and the same thing where - as they are two clauses.
The paragraph should read thus:
"And the Word became flesh; (Greek ho logos sarx egeneto.)
And tabernacled with (or among) us." (Greek kai eskenosen en hemin).
The word tabernacled here (preserved in Revised Version marg.) receives beautiful significance from the knowledge that "the Lord of Glory" was "found in fashion as a man", and thus tabernacling in human flesh. And in turn it shows in equally beautiful significance that our Lord was born on the first day of the great Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri, corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C. (modern reckoning).
The circumcision of our Lord took place therefore on the eighth day, the last day of the Feast, the "Great Day of the Feast" of John 7:37 ("Tabernacles" had eight days. The Feast of Unleavened Bread had seven days, and Pentecost one. See Leviticus 23).
The main arguments against the Nativity having taken place in December may be set forth very simply:
(i) The extreme improbability, amounting almost to impossibility, that Mary, under such circumstances, could have undertaken a journey of about 70 miles (as the crow flies), through a hill district averaging some 3,000 feet above sea - level, in the depth of winter:
(ii) Shepherds and their flocks would not be found "abiding" (Greek agrauleo) in the open fields at night in December (Tebeth), for the paramount reason that there would be no pasturage at that time. It was the custom then (as now) to withdraw the flocks during the month Marchesvan (October-November) 8 from the open districts and house them for the winter.
(iii) The Roman authorities in imposing such a "census taking" for the hated and unpopular "foreign" tax would not have enforced the imperial decree (Luke 2:1) at the most inconvenient and inclement season of the year, by compelling the people to enroll themselves at their respective "cities" in December. In such a case they would naturally choose the "line" of least resistance", and select a time of year that would cause least friction, and interference with the habits and pursuits of the Jewish people. This would be in the autumn, when the agricultural round of the year was complete, and the people generally more or less at liberty to take advantage, as we know many did, of the opportunity of "going up" to Jerusalem for the "Feast of Tabernacles" (compare John 7:8-10, etc.), the crowning Feast of the Jewish year.
To take advantage of such a time would be to the Romans the simplest and most natural policy, whereas to attempt to enforce the Edict of Registration for the purposes of Imperial taxation in the depth of winter, - when traveling for such a purpose would have been deeply resented, and perhaps have brought about a revolt,-would never have been attempted by such an astute ruler as Augustus.
With regard to the other two "Quarter Days", June 24, March 25, these are both associated with the miraculous (Luke 1:7) "conception" and the birth of the Forerunner, as December 25 and September 29 are with our Lord's miraculous "Begetting" and Birth; and are therefore connected with "the Course of Abiah."

[ALF]

hey skittles, i too do not like it when xmas is used, but i wont debate on what not to put up and what to put up, what not to sing and what to sing. For me it is a time of remembering the most important birth that has ever been: JESUS CHRIST !...........at CHRISTMAS, we will still put our pagen tree and and PRAY over it, cause we are remembering JESUS, we will put our wreath up to remember his continuos love, and we will throw a birthday party and have a cake and sing happy birhtday to JESUS. JESUS doenst care for CHRISTMAS?....I DISAGREE.........my daughter knows why we CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS, JESUS HAS BEEN BORN, AND I WILL CONTINUE TA CELEBRATE THAT FACT......we all need ta remember that this is a time for rejoicing,........our SAVIOUR IS HERE

[Robert]

NOTES
1 ZUMPT fixes Quirinus' (Cyrenius') First Governorship as 4 B.C. to 1 B.C. Justin Martyr thrice says that our Lord was born under Quirinus (Apol. 1. XXXIV, page 37; XLVI, page 46; Dial. LXXVIII, page 195. Clarks edition).
2 According to some, Augustus died August 19, A.D. 14. Therefore if Tiberius' co-regnancy was for two years before Augustus' death his first year was 765 A.U.C. = 12 A.D.. His fifteenth year consequently was A.U.C. 779 = 26 A.D. = 4030 A.M. and A.C. 30, for our Lord was thirty years of age when He begun His Ministry (Luke 3:23). Clement of Alexandria gives the years of Augustus' reign as being 43-46, according to different reckonings in his day.
3 According to Clement of Alexandria (compare A.D. 190-220) "Our Lord was born in the twenty-eighth year when first the census was ordered to be taken in the reign of Augustus" (Stromata, Book i, see Clark's edition i. pages 444-445). If that is correct, and it is true that a Census was taken every fourteen years, then the next would fall in A.D. 10, and the succeeding one would have been due A.D. 24.
4 Notably the day of the crucifixion, etc (see Appendix 156 and Appendix 165).
5 His statements are, however, very vague, and he mentions several dates claimed by others as correct.
6 Osiris reincarnated.
7 See Wilkinson's Ancient Egyptians, Volume III, page 79 (Birch's edition).
8 It is true that the Lebanon shepherds are in the habit of keeping their flocks alive during the winter months, by cutting down branches of trees in the forests in that district, to feed the sheep on the leaves and twigs, when in autumn the pastures are dried up, and in winter, when snow covers the ground (compare Land and Book, page 204), but there is no evidence that the Bethlehem district was afforested in this manner.
Finally that's it.

ROBERT.

[casmithjr]

In my opinion, the Catholic Church did incorporate pagan traditions to help convert them to Christianity. I feel it was a smart move on their part. Every year in celebrating Christmas, around Jesus, my family comes closer together. We are able to bring a lot of good out of this celebration. We even do the Santa Clause (or Saint Nick) thing. A lot of pagans try to confuse Christians on the purpose of our celebration by trying to convince it is a pagan holiday and distorting history.
Suicide rate does not go up at Christmas time, it goes done. It has been a common misconception that the suicide rate went up.
Our founding fathers did celebrate Christmas, Christmas was primarily a religious holiday in 18th century Virginia, "the day set apart to remember the Nativity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." It was also, however, a festive occasion marked by visits between friends and relatives, parties, and public assemblies.

[Lisa]

Baptist preacher Charles H. Spurgeon opened a sermon on 24 December 1871 with the following words:
“We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority.”

In seventeenth century England, the Puritans objected to Christian celebrations that had no clear biblical basis (the Bible does not tell us to celebrate Jesus' birthday). As a result, the English Parliament in 1643 outlawed Christmas, Easter, and other Christian holidays. However, December 25 as a festive day was so popular that by 1660 the citizens reclaimed it.
When the Pilgrims arrived in Plymouth, Massachusetts, in 1620 they also brought with them a distrust of Christmas. A 1659 Massachusetts law fined people for celebrating on December 25. But again, the day was so popular that the law was repealed in 1681, although strong religious opposition lasted into the next century.
Lutherans, Dutch Reformed, Catholic, and Anglican churches were most responsible for establishing Christmas traditions in the United States. Baptists, Presbyterians, Quakers, and Puritans voiced opposition to the day because of the pagan origins of most of the Christmas festivities.

:c Jesus told us what to do in remembrance of him...Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

:bible ...As for me and my house we will serve the Lord...Joshua 24:15

[gabrielle_igloo]

MUAHH
I wrote a parody to the song oh Christmas tree called oh holiday tree...
It's a laugh and a half!

[MovingInFaith]

yeah, I worked retail and when we were checking people out at the cash register, they told us to say "happy holidays!" but if I saw a cross on someone's neck, I always said "Merry Christmas!" because, frankly, Christmas is the only reason a lot of small businesses even stay in the black. If it weren't for this holiday, we would only have huge department stores catering to the masses.

[hevvyg]

Hi skittles - i hate it too! It annoys me so much! Imagine someone having a party to celebrate your birthday and then not even bothering to mention your name!
love Heather (a newbie from London)

[bluebob]

Hi. It used to upset me too until I learned the meaning.

[Potters House]

I challenge all Bible believers to check out the roots of this holiday. Try typing in 'Puritans and Christmas' on your favorite search engine. Christmas was banned by the Pilgrims, and illegal in some states. It didn't really catch on until the late 1800's in America. Very interesting history of this pagan holiday that we should all be aware of.

[servant_of_the_end]

potters house. I ministered in Prescott years ago (1976 to 79 or 80) while the pastor was Wayman Mitchell. I know many of his disciples. Harold Warner of Tuscon, plus many others. Tommy in El Centro, Harry of Victorville. Are you in the same fellowship?

[grizzlybee9]

Saying xmas instead of christmas is not a big deal. It is just abbreviated they probably say it for short because they don't want to say the full name. Don't worry.

[Potters House]

Greetings Servant, I have been in Yavapai County for 30+ years. Currently living out by the Yolo Ranch. Not affiliated with the Potters House churches. Thats our profession. We're potters. Nice to meet you, perhaps we'll catch each other in the chat room sometime! God bless!

[OneVoice]

hay everyone i have a question. how do you feel when ppl say Xmas insted of Christmas????? i know it bugs me. So tell me what you guys think please
lots of love skittles :h

laziness...
some peope are all about the abreviations... why do YOU say "ppl" instead or saing "people"??? Why do you write "insted" when it's "instead"???